Puppets and Stuff

Puppet Construction => Puppet Building => Topic started by: Shawn Sorrell on March 17, 2008, 04:31:55 pm



Title: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on March 17, 2008, 04:31:55 pm
Since this question always comes up and I even get emails about it I thought it might be worth making a thread about. :)

The big question is where can I find a contact cement that is not toxic?  Well you want to look for a water based adhesive.  They are often used by cabinet makers to apply veneers.  Here is one such product called Titebond Cold Press (http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=139-541).  One nice thing I have found with the water based adhesive is that they are not as suspectable to heat (see below).

Fabri-Tac (http://www.save-on-crafts.com/fabritac.html) is another adhesive that  can be used which you can normally find in any craft or sewing store. Unlike a contact adhesive you need hold the pieces together for a few minutes until it bonds.  Clothespins are handy for this so you can free your hands for other things. ;)  This adhesive is like the water based one above in that heat does not pop your seams as readily although if you take a hair dryer to a seam before it fully sets up you can normally peal it apart if you have made a mistake.

Many people use a glue gun to close their foam seams but I personally do not like it and if you use this method make sure you keep a lot of cold water and ice cubes at hand to sooth the burns on your fingers.  Also note that if you leave your puppet in a hot car the seams are going to come apart.  This can actually happen with contact cement as well.

Just for good measure let's make sure that we mention WeldWood (http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=35).  This is the highly toxic contact cement that most are trying to avoid.

Well that wraps up this quick post for me but feel free to add to it your favorite name brands.  I simply listed some I could find reference to on the internet.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Rcdspoon on March 17, 2008, 08:58:55 pm
Great advice as always shawn thanks for the tip...

Sincerely,


Spoon!!!


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: StiqPuppet Productions on March 17, 2008, 11:23:52 pm
Among the ones above here is another one........

....If you live in Canada or close enough (the border) to it we have a great non-toxic contact cement available.  It is called "Lepage, Pres-tite Green, Contact Cement, Water-based."  It works just like contact cement except without it killing you slowly.  I safely use it in my house and it has hardly any smell at all.  It is 100% solvent free, no toxic fumes, and non-flammable.

The only difference between this product and original contact cement is that it may take a few more minutes to get tacky.  I say a small sacrifice to be able to use a great and safe product.

It is found in any hardware store in the Glues section. 

I hope this gives people other options if they are able to find it.....

Good luck on your searches.

Daryl H


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: MRHIP on March 18, 2008, 06:29:35 pm
Hey:

I've been getting into puppetry more and recently saw the YouTube vid from Brazil on making foam puppets.  The adhesive they use and the manner in which they are using it made me seek out this forum.

I've used a water based contact adhesive called Ultimate marketed by a company called Crafters Pick.  It can be obtained at Hobby Lobby, Michaels and other stores in the U.S. or directly from the Crafters Pick website.  It is water based, cleans up with water, and makes a strong flexible seam in poly foam and other materials.  It has no offensive fumes  so you can work with it bare handed and without a filter mask or ventilation.  It's only draw backs are it is very thick and has a long dry time (up to 4 hours with high humidity), but these are offset by the benefits.

Back to the Brazilian puppet makers video, if anyone knows what they are using I sure would like to know.

MR


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: StiqPuppet Productions on March 18, 2008, 07:57:09 pm
Quote
Back to the Brazilian puppet makers video, if anyone knows what they are using I sure would like to know.

I think it is Contact Cement in a Ketchup restaurant type of bottle, they skip using a piece of foam to spread it and use the tip to spread the glue with.

Daryl H


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on March 19, 2008, 08:06:38 am
Ok I dug through my collection of DVD's and CD's from the company and found reference to what they use. Well kind of at least. :)  The version I have was before they had them translated by a professional.  Here is an excerpt.
Quote
MATTER EXCELS – CONTACT GLUES

The famous shoemaker glues, used to decades for the collage of porous products and that should resist the humidity.

Basically the glue is the eraser Latex dissolved by a volatile solvent.

When in contact with the air, slowly the solvent evaporates, being a viscous eraser, that he/she only gives league with her same.

Several marks exist in small tubes.

All serve, bad the most reliable and sold in larger packings are Brascoplast and Amazon.


Ok that really does not make a whole lot of sense when you read it but I do pick up an several things. "shoemaker glues"  indicates that they use something like Barge or at least what in Brazil is used by shoe makers.  There is an image of both small tubes of it and large gallon containers.  I do not recognize any of the brand markings on any of them.   So I am pretty sure they do use Contact Cement it is simply the brand that is available to them in Brazil.

P.S.  I just noticed the refrence to Brascoplast.  This is the site: http://www.brascola.com.br/en/busca.php
The packageing in CD image looks like they use Brascoplast Pro-Line.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: MRHIP on March 19, 2008, 10:29:06 am
Hey:

Looks like you were right Shawn.  They're using an organic solvent based contact adhesive.  I sure would hate to be them at hand clean up time and I bet their headaches are terrible.

I'll stick to Crafter's Pick Ultimate for now and just be patient with the dry time and viscosity,

Thanks,

MR


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Tom_McLaughlin on November 25, 2008, 10:12:23 am
after using Barge contact cement for something like 30 years ... it isn't what it once was. I don't care for it very much anymore ... it now dries too fast and looses it's "open time" too soon ... that is, it won't stick to itself after a few minutes. Weldwood contact cement (solvent based version, the water based version is not too good for what we do) works well but is a bit soft for some of the harder foams we use like EVA foam ... my favorite contact adhesive is currently Master adhesive, a polychloroprene contact cement available at shoemakers' supply store.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Na on November 25, 2008, 11:17:14 am
If you're an Aussie or NZer, you will want to pick up a bottle of Helmar's Foam Glue, which is a non-toxic, clear drying and strong glue. It takes about 1 hour to dry, but a few hours more for a sufficiently strong seam/attachment. It can be found at Spotlight or Riot Art and Craft.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: MsPuppet on April 15, 2009, 05:53:59 pm
OK, I took someones advice and bought the non toxic contact cement. What a waste of money, it won't glue anything. Any idea what I might be doing wrong?


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: MsPuppet on April 15, 2009, 05:56:56 pm
Someone recommended Fabri-Tac to me and it works fairly well on foam. You can find it at Wal Mart or the fabric stores.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: StiqPuppet Productions on April 15, 2009, 06:27:52 pm
OK, I took someones advice and bought the non toxic contact cement. What a waste of money, it won't glue anything. Any idea what I might be doing wrong?

I use it all the time and love it.....you need to get a hairdryer and speed up the time to make the glue tacky before you adhere it to the other piece of foam.  That is the key to make sure it is tacky before adhering.  I love it due to the same results as contact cement without the health risks.

Hope this helps.......

Daryl H


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: MsPuppet on April 16, 2009, 01:54:06 am
I did that (the hair dryer). I always use a hair dryer with regular contact cement. I really think this can is bad or something. It NEVER gets tacky. I have worked with contact cement a lot, and this is stuff is just plain weird. Thinking maybe I need to get another can and try it.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Monkey on April 16, 2009, 02:15:07 am
When I found out about crafter's pick ultimate from this forum I tried it and was not disappointed.

Steve


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: StiqPuppet Productions on April 16, 2009, 07:58:35 am
I did that (the hair dryer). I always use a hair dryer with regular contact cement. I really think this can is bad or something. It NEVER gets tacky. I have worked with contact cement a lot, and this is stuff is just plain weird. Thinking maybe I need to get another can and try it.

It could be a bad can......maybe you could exchange it if you have your reciept?

Daryl H


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: OttoVonGlumm on August 11, 2009, 08:22:50 pm
Has any one used the tite bond cold press glue? how well does it work?  Im a woodworker and we always used tite bond wood glue in the shop and i like the brand but never used the cold press stuff......also has anyone ever used sta-put? Im a new builder trying to find my way around, could someone turn the lights on?


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: miguel on August 12, 2009, 06:22:11 am
Hey,  :wave  :welcome to P&S


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on August 12, 2009, 07:58:03 am
I would bet that most the things you use in wood working would work for you in puppet making. :)  It never hurts to try. With adhesives often ones that are water based or like your gold press do not make as strong a bond, but that may not be a problem depending on what you are doing in the puppet making process.  I've used water based adhesives for gluing foam on puppets and it is just fine, where as if used on say a counter top to laminate it might not last as long.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Magenta on August 12, 2009, 08:44:41 am
Has any one used the tite bond cold press glue? how well does it work?  Im a woodworker and we always used tite bond wood glue in the shop and i like the brand but never used the cold press stuff......also has anyone ever used sta-put? Im a new builder trying to find my way around, could someone turn the lights on?

Hi!  Please keeps us posted with things that work or not. I don't use contact cement because it is so awful and I have small children.  I tend to stick with hot glue and careful fingers.  If you learn something new and useful, believe me, we are all ears.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Rosie H on August 15, 2009, 04:15:31 pm
I'm using hot glue at the moment... but it hurts.  :'(
It's ok for assembling heads but when I made the arms, ouch! It doesn't fold over the edges without burning my fingers. I do have contact cement but I don't want to use it because it's so bad for you.
What I need is a contact cement, that you wait a little while till it gets tacky, dries clear, that is non toxic and doesn't come undone when you leave your puppet in a hot car, my car gets sooo hot it's just not true!
I read all of the above posts and I still can't decide what to do.  :-\


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: SHould on August 15, 2009, 04:30:28 pm
I used water based contact cement and after working with the none water based type first and then switched to the water based one, I realised that the water based waiting time till it gets tacky is longer and that you dont have much time available to be able to stick your parts together before it is too late. Still, I find working with the water based contact cement works really well in a well ventilated room. With my asthma, I just cant use the none water based one because its just hell to breath with that stuff.

So not only do puppeteers look for the price and practicality with a product, but also for the health guidelines when they choose a product. I guess it all depends on the taste of each an everyone.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on August 16, 2009, 08:44:14 am
There is a product in the US called Fabri-Tac.  Here is a video review of it. http://www.expotv.com/Fabri-tac-Adhesive-Glue/q-12og

It works on foam but you have to be able to hold the "seam" for about 5-10 mins while it set up. Cloths pins can sometimes hold the seam for you.  While the process of gluing is longer and can be cumbersome, the advantage over both contact cement and glue gun is that in heat the bond does not release.

Google Search Results of Fabri-Tac (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS218US219&q=Fabri-Tac&aq=0&oq=Fabritac&aqi=g1g-s2)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on August 16, 2009, 08:55:47 am
Hmmm.... I was researching Beacon Adhesives, which is the company that makes Fabri-Tac and came across this page. http://www.beaconadhesives.com/cchart.html It is a chart of their glues and what they work on.  They actually list two glues that are specifically for foam.

Craft Foam Glue (http://www.beaconadhesives.com/cgcraft-foam.html)
Hold the Foam (http://www.beaconadhesives.com/cghold.html)

The second one really sounds like a winner but I don't think I have ever seen it in the stores around here.  They do say that thier products are sold in Hancock Fabrics, Jo-Ann, Hobby Lobby, Garden Ridge, Michaels, Brewer’s, A.C. Moore, Ragshop, and Wal-Mart.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Rosie H on August 19, 2009, 05:20:05 am
This is interesting, I just need someone to have tried the product and it meets my requirements, esp. re: hot car.  :-\


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: miguel on September 22, 2009, 08:05:16 pm
This is the glue I use for the foam. Its not toxic, and its works fantastic. Without problem  :tup:

(http://puppetsandstuff.com/2008gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=9892&g2_serialNumber=2) (http://puppetsandstuff.com/community/index.php?action=gallery&g2_itemId=9891)

(http://puppetsandstuff.com/2008gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=9894&g2_serialNumber=2) (http://puppetsandstuff.com/community/index.php?action=gallery&g2_itemId=9893)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Billy D. Fuller on September 22, 2009, 08:36:47 pm
This is where I order some of my supplies (http://image.ssww.com/catimages/SWGA-SWGZ/SWGL/SWGL0580R9.eps_0421.fpx?&wid=300&cvt=jpeg)

http://www.ssww.com/store/product/sku=GL580/cmc=ACC/ (http://www.ssww.com/store/product/sku=GL580/cmc=ACC/)

Billy D.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: miguel on September 23, 2009, 06:19:11 am
Nice Web. With awesome prices!

Thanks for sharing Mr. Fuller!  :hug:


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: ClippoPuppet on September 23, 2009, 09:26:59 am
I'm currently experimenting with water-based contact cement. So far it seems to work really well, but as mentioned before, the drying time is longer than the regular stuff and the window of opportunity is shorter. I was lucky enough to have the ability to test a few pieces of foam with a couple of different types of the water based cement since I work for Blue Man Group and their prop master is a really nice guy! They use the glue to attach foam to the paddles they use when they play the PVC Pipe Drum, and if you've ever seen a Blue Man Group show, you know they beat the heck out of those things. The glue is fairly durable if used properly - at least that's what the prop guy swears to.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Chris Arveson on September 23, 2009, 10:45:20 am
ClippoPuppet, I am a little confused. Are you referring to a particular brand of water-based contact cement, in relationship to Blue Man Group, or water-based contact cements in general?


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: ClippoPuppet on September 23, 2009, 11:15:58 am
Water based in general. From what the prop guy tells me, they use a particular brand only because it's easy to come by from their suppliers (I'll have to ask him when he comes in to remind me which brand). That brand, however, has a couple of different strengths and types of glue that work better on particular materials. He had suggested the "green" (he bases his calling it green on the actual color of the glue) type for foam as that's what he uses on the paddles. I'll try to find out what actual brand they use this afternoon when they all come in.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Chris Arveson on September 23, 2009, 11:44:17 am
OK, thanks! :)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: ClippoPuppet on September 23, 2009, 12:10:13 pm
Uh, well duh. They use 3M Flashbond 30 water based contact. Don't know why I couldn't remember that. Age or something! He said they have both green and neutral colors, and for some reason the green holds better. Then they also use the 3M 77 for securing some of their foam props. They use both neoprene foam (which they use the contact cement for) and some kind of industrial foam (he wasn't sure what kind of foam it was but it looked like it might be a very firm multi foam of some kind) that they use the 77 on.

My foam test with scott foam and the water based contact seems to be holding just as well as the evil-smelling weldwood gel kind I had been using. It was easy to use, but did take a bit longer to dry and I had to put the pieces together and hold them for about 10 minutes to cure. It dried with a bit of a green tint, so it might be better to try the neutral color to see how that looks if you're not putting a skin on the puppet.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: StiqPuppet Productions on September 23, 2009, 06:09:29 pm
Hey I have used "Green" Contact Cement by LePage.  To speed up the drying process use a Hairdryer it works great speeds things up.  I will be doing a glueing workshop at my show on Monday at 9PM EST.   ;)

Daryl H


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: MsPuppet on September 30, 2009, 05:50:34 pm
We recently made a "glue box."  It is a large cardboard box with a portion of two sides cut out.  One side goes against a window, which we open when we are gluing. It has a large filter (a/c heating type filter). I have a large box fan in the window. 

This very effectively draws the fumes out of the room.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: amydazzler27 on August 02, 2010, 12:05:19 pm
Another great glue that I have been using is the "Foam Fusion" from hot wire foam factory. It's solvent-free so it won't melt the foam over time and the hot wire tools will cut through it. It's available in a variety of sizes, depending on your expected usage. I've linked the 8oz bottle:  http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/product.php?productid=16200&cat=249&page=1


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Billy D. Fuller on August 02, 2010, 01:37:35 pm
Another great glue that I have been using is the "Foam Fusion" from hot wire foam factory. It's solvent-free so it won't melt the foam over time and the hot wire tools will cut through it. It's available in a variety of sizes, depending on your expected usage. I've linked the 8oz bottle:  [url]http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/product.php?productid=16200&cat=249&page=1[/url]


Thanks for sharing....... I wondered how that glue worked.

Billy D.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: April Dawne on August 03, 2010, 11:10:22 pm
Liquid Nails Latex Neoprene Contact Cement
    * Non-flammable strong professional grade
    * Long open time, fast dry
    * Water and heat resistant
    * No shifting can be done once contact is made
    * Low odor

Has anyone used this? I ran across it and was curious!


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: themonstons.com on September 05, 2010, 09:37:57 am
Since my sewing skills are non-existant, I've glued my puppets together using "Lepage Pres-tite Contact Cement" which is a 230 ml tin for the large areas and "Loctite" Super Glue for the small areas.  I've would have used the 'Lepage" glue for the small area's but it drys kind of sludgy greenish and I find that although it drys very quickly, its not the best for asthetics if your off the mark in its application on the material.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: whtrom on November 20, 2010, 07:36:31 am
Is there any disadvantage to using a glue gun other then getting burned... Alot :)  Will the foam seems undo in a few years? Lately I've been using a glue gun because I don't like the smell of the contact cements and I work indoors with no ventilation.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on November 21, 2010, 07:35:24 am
I am not a fan of glue gun really but a lot of folks use them.  My reason for not liking glue gun, is the process of repairing something.  If something fails or needs to be replaced you have this big glob of glue to deal with.  This really pertains more to the fabric part of things and not as much the foam itself. On the foam I have found that it slows me down. For me the foam seems to keep the glue hot and thus I have to hold the seam while it sets. With contact cement I slather each side then move on to something else for about 15-20 mins then come back and slam the two pieces together and it is done.  :)

As far as longevity of each, I think glue gun might last longer depending on the environment you store in.  Contact cement does get old over time and looses it's holding power. When I say over time I mean 8-10 years.  Just had to re-firb some pieces that the seams where popping on.  I still used contact cement to fix them. Really at the 8-10 year mark, you should be retiring the puppet and building it new.  I mean really now... how about that favorite shirt you have... you know your wife is right.... it should be thrown out. ;)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Snail on June 27, 2011, 10:39:47 pm
Hey I have used "Green" Contact Cement by LePage.  To speed up the drying process use a Hairdryer it works great speeds things up.  I will be doing a glueing workshop at my show on Monday at 9PM EST.   ;)

Daryl H
Thanks, I gave Green contact cement another try with hairdryer and I love it. Even used a can that was years old and it worked, had to dry it longer but I love the way it holds and made a thin, not too stiff seam. I am using hot glue less and less.  In Texas it gets so hot that it will come undone on me. Also I have to remake my puppets a lot for ever changing scripts and I hate glued on hair that cannot be changed so I use those long doll needles and baste the hair on so I can rip it off later. Really appreciate your encouragement to keep trying to use the less fumes product.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Sid on January 03, 2012, 03:49:02 pm
I'm a big fan of using Barge for L200 foam construction, recently I saw a friend of mine mixing in MEKP. He said it made the Barge 10X better. I'm a little weary on trying this. Has anyone used this technique before?
thx
 :-\


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on January 03, 2012, 07:10:53 pm
Not I, but this would make me leary... "a high explosive similar to acetone peroxide" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_ethyl_ketone_peroxide :)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Sid on January 03, 2012, 07:27:00 pm
Yeah, I use it as the "kicker" for fiberglass molds but it's always in small amounts, 7-15% depending on the cure time desired. It's well known in the industry to be hazardous even in small quantities. My friend mixed in about 15-20% into his Barge. The negatives may out-weigh the positives in this instance. thanks for your feedback.
-s


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Snail on January 07, 2012, 08:39:46 pm
I am a chemist,I used to work in toxicology and pathology. We use EPA website to find the side effects of chemicals. My favorite is Hazardous Substance Database  http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/htmlgen?HSDB
Put the chemical name in the search, if result comes up click on the chemical name, then on the left side choose Human Health Effects.  MEKP Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide is also called 2-BUTANONE PEROXIDE CAS 1338-23-4. Chemicals have many different names so we use the American Chemial Society CAS number to help us find synonymn names for the same chemical. And the health effects for this one are really bad, severe eye hazard, blindness, some died from ingestion.  I would not have this chemical in a house where children lived no mater how good it worked.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: zooooom on May 23, 2012, 07:33:37 pm
What about "Better Bond Titan DX™ Premium Contact Cement" ?
http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Better-Bond-Titan-DX-Premium-Contact-Cement.html (http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Better-Bond-Titan-DX-Premium-Contact-Cement.html)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on May 24, 2012, 07:15:26 am
Titan DX™ Premium Contact Cement looks very promising. Have you used it by any chance Zooooom?  I have used other water based contact cements like this and they have done ok. The price is really good on this product also.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: zooooom on May 24, 2012, 08:18:54 am
No I haven't. I'm also looking for odorless contact cement so I've find it . There is some negative comments about this glue so Im not sure about a quality http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/adhesives.pl?read=711486 (http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/adhesives.pl?read=711486) or maybe this is a result of misuse because water based cements are different as somebody explain here http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Using_WaterBased_Contact_Cements.html (http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Using_WaterBased_Contact_Cements.html)

I've find some more solvent free cements but have never tryed them yet

1. http://www.wilsonartadhesives.com/products/adhesives.aspx?p=ca&sp=13 (http://www.wilsonartadhesives.com/products/adhesives.aspx?p=ca&sp=13)
Description http://sustain.wilsonart.com/productlib/techdata/adhesives/WA%20H2O%20Technical%20Data%20Sheet.pdf (http://sustain.wilsonart.com/productlib/techdata/adhesives/WA%20H2O%20Technical%20Data%20Sheet.pdf)

2. Multibond Contact Cement  http://www.franklinadhesivesandpolymers.com/Wood-Adhesives-US/Wood-Adhesives/product-family/Multibond-family/Multibond_Contact_Cement.aspx (http://www.franklinadhesivesandpolymers.com/Wood-Adhesives-US/Wood-Adhesives/product-family/Multibond-family/Multibond_Contact_Cement.aspx)

3. Helmibond http://www.berenson.ca/documents/0776ET%20TDS.pdf (http://www.berenson.ca/documents/0776ET%20TDS.pdf)

4. DAP® Weldwood http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=48&SubcatID=8 (http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=48&SubcatID=8)

5. Johnsonite #945 Contact Bond Adhesive  http://www.johnsonite.com/WallBaseFinishesAccessories/Adhesives/tabid/815/Default.aspx (http://www.johnsonite.com/WallBaseFinishesAccessories/Adhesives/tabid/815/Default.aspx)
Description  http://www.johnsonite.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=6Fhn3OLEk7o%3D&tabid=815 (http://www.johnsonite.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=6Fhn3OLEk7o%3D&tabid=815)



Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on May 24, 2012, 09:15:00 am
I think that a water based contact can work ok but like you found in some of your research they can take longer to dry and are very reliant on the humidity and temperature of the environment you are working in.  I've used DAP Weldwood before with varying results.  I continue to go back to solvent based adhesives simply because I feel they are more reliable and not as picky about the current environment conditions.  Kansas City tends to be very drastic in it's weather and often is quite humid. It could be that in your area you would not have the same issues that I've had with water based solvents.  I say give them a try.  I know others use them and love them. :)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: zooooom on May 24, 2012, 10:00:28 am
I also prefer a solvent based for personal use but I need to find something suitable for workshops because some people are allergic or just cannot stand the smell of  regular cements  :'(


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: CJ Puppets on May 24, 2012, 12:25:47 pm
I use DAP original. I've tried the green can but got extremely poor results. It can take up to a whole day to dry and even then the bond is VERY bad. I was able to pull a seam apart with almost no effort at all. I'd strongly NOT suggest it.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: zooooom on June 01, 2012, 04:17:18 pm
Thank you, good to know = save time&money :-)
As I've understood from net searching water-based won't work like solvent-based but still looking for different kind of cements,anyway,have anybody ever tried the RENIA adhesives? Looks like they make a good stuff but you never know...  http://www.renia.com/englisch/prodphotos.html (http://www.renia.com/englisch/prodphotos.html)
they also have some video about their products  http://www.youtube.com/user/reniavideos (http://www.youtube.com/user/reniavideos)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on June 02, 2012, 07:25:17 am
It just dawned on me that your medium is normally not foam hand puppets but marionettes. Are we talking about adhesives for foam or wood? :)  There are two adhesives I've used on foam that work pretty good. FabriTac and Tacky glues. http://www.beaconadhesives.com/cgfab.html (http://www.beaconadhesives.com/cgfab.html) http://www.michaels.com/Aleene%27s%C2%AE-Original-Tacky-Glue%C2%AE/gc0040,default,pd.html (http://www.michaels.com/Aleene%27s%C2%AE-Original-Tacky-Glue%C2%AE/gc0040,default,pd.html)  Neither are contact glues so you have to somehow hold your seam together while the glue sets but with the FabriTac that is not really that long. The Tacky takes longer. With foam I often use it and on a seam and then use straight pins to hold the foam seam together while it dries. 15 - 30 mins and you can normally pull the pins out although it takes longer to really foam a strong bond like most glues.  If you take into consideration that with contact you have to let it set up before you can put the pieces together sometimes these glues are actually faster.  Bond is just as good as with contact cements.  I prefer the FabriTack over the Tacky.

I've never used the RENIA products.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: zooooom on June 02, 2012, 09:56:00 am
It just dawned on me that your medium is normally not foam hand puppets but marionettes. Are we talking about adhesives for foam or wood? :)

For foam  :wave Generally speaking I make what clients are willing  pay for  :-[ I mean - puppetry or sculpture related stuff   :lol  I posted a couple or foam's projects on this forum

http://puppetsandstuff.com/community/index.php/topic,6395.msg57413.html#msg57413 (http://puppetsandstuff.com/community/index.php/topic,6395.msg57413.html#msg57413)

http://puppetsandstuff.com/community/index.php/topic,6670.msg60118.html#msg60118 (http://puppetsandstuff.com/community/index.php/topic,6670.msg60118.html#msg60118)

It's only a few examples of foam's puppets  :wave Once I wanted to learn more professional way to build stuff so I ( sorry for soooo much " I " - my English vocabulary is poor  :-[ ) find a mascot company which was looking for a foam carver and I was working for a few months here. They use air compressor and spray gun for contact cement so the process and result a bit different , anyway, I have kinda obsession with a quality of materials and always looking for "the best"  :lol my questions here are result of this obsession >:D
BTW my faworite fabric glue  is  Gutermann . For some reason it isn't for sale in North America , I order it from Europe http://www.etsy.com/search/supplies?q=gutermann%20glue&view_type=gallery&ship_to=ZZ&min=0&max=0 (http://www.etsy.com/search/supplies?q=gutermann%20glue&view_type=gallery&ship_to=ZZ&min=0&max=0)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on June 02, 2012, 02:57:05 pm
Gutermann has an adhesive!? :) Well if it is anything like their threads then it is a quality product.  Wow... they even have a thread made out of recycled material... https://www.guetermann.com/shop/en/view/content/page_0000000HR2?node=comp_0000000DCN (https://www.guetermann.com/shop/en/view/content/page_0000000HR2?node=comp_0000000DCN)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: zooooom on June 02, 2012, 03:11:48 pm
Yes , they have it and good one! I always used it before I moved to Canada. I've asked a local Gutermann's distributor why they don't have this glue in stock. They said that it's a technical problem to send it by air  :o I have no idea what they are talking about,which problem can be with this stuff.
Some materials aren't for sell in retail stores here, for example - Poxipol epoxy glue, also very good product, maybe because it made in Argentina  :-\ ? maybe kinda embargo on this country? Actually, I don't remember I've seen anythink "made in Argentina", anyway, Poxipol - 5***** :wave http://www.factorynet.com.ar/adhesivos/adhesivo-de-2-componentes/poxipol-transparente-700ml.html (http://www.factorynet.com.ar/adhesivos/adhesivo-de-2-componentes/poxipol-transparente-700ml.html)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: melaine9 on June 11, 2012, 08:17:58 pm
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=crafter%27s+pick+ultimate (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=crafter%27s+pick+ultimate)

Crafters Ultimate is available at Amazon.com


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: melaine9 on June 11, 2012, 08:22:21 pm
I bought a small bottle of weldwood today. I couldnot find Barge's in my area. So which glue for foam should I get. Hotglue is not my favorite.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Billy D. Fuller on June 12, 2012, 05:41:13 am
I bought a small bottle of weldwood today. I couldnot find Barge's in my area. So which glue for foam should I get. Hotglue is not my favorite.

I use the Weld wood gel the regular was to thin for me.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on June 12, 2012, 06:59:18 am
I agree with Billy that I prefer the gel over the regular when I use the 3m Weldwood. Barge seems to hold better and longer but Weldwood is ok. Hotglue holds very well but I don't like working with it although many puppeteers do like it and suggest it. Here is a tip: When using hotglue you can keep a can of compressed air handy to cool down the glue once you place  your seams together. Since foam holds the heat of the glue so long this helps speed up the cooling process.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Out of the Box Puppets on June 12, 2012, 07:05:09 am
I like the original weldwood because I found the same size can didn't go as far as the gel.  I've never used Barge again because the price seems to be higher per quantity.  That begging said I've only found tubes, so maybe in a larger quantity the price is competitive.

Also, the method I prefer to apply the glue is to use a 2-21/2".x 4" piece of 1" foam as an applicator.  Dip the foam into the glue just about 1/4" or less.  Let the glue soak into the foam until the surface is not as shiny.  They apply to both surfaces.  Allow both surfaces to become tacky then join.

Make sure to use gloves. Use the product outside and possibly with a chemical rated mask if sensitive.  This stuff is highly flammable.  The fumes will travel across a room and find and open flame very quickly.  Safety first!  :hug:

Julie


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: melaine9 on June 12, 2012, 05:14:45 pm
I tried the weldwood today, outside , because I have small animals. It worked well and quick for me. but next time I will get the gel. I live in Louisiana and it gets very warm here. As far as hotglue it's great for some things but I prefer not to burn my fingers. LOL. I found weldwood also works well for glueing fabric to foam.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: MsPuppet on June 17, 2012, 09:29:39 pm
I'm with Julie, the gell doesn't seem to go as far.  Both of us live on the TX Gulf Coast, so know all about humidity.  I use regular contact cement (forget the water based stuff). Sometimes use the 3M Spray adhesive for foam.  It is expensive, but holds well, and the smell is not as strong as contact cement. 

BTW - if you take a Dave Pannebecker class, you use barge (in small cans) inside.  We opened the windows, but didn't help much. LOL.  He probably knows where to purchase the barge.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: melaine9 on June 17, 2012, 10:03:20 pm
You can get Barges on amazon.com there are several suppliers and diffrent sizes and prices. Ranging from tubes to gallon size.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on June 18, 2012, 06:03:21 am
Well it is possible that you can get Barge in your city but just not in regular stores. Barge is used by cobblers to re-sole shoes. So find a shoe repair shop in your area and ask them if they perhaps sell it or if they get it locally where they get it. 

Also the Ace Hardware website has it so it might be that your local Ace Hardware may have it. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1390196 (http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1390196)  They have a cool store locator. http://www.acehardware.com/mystore/storeLocator.jsp (http://www.acehardware.com/mystore/storeLocator.jsp)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: crash2.0 on March 03, 2013, 07:30:44 pm
Has anyone tried this? titebond (http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=754259a9-824a-4f42-bee4-b302917369ea)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: MsPuppet on March 04, 2013, 05:53:45 am
Haven't tried it with puppets, hubby used some w laminate. As with most "green" products it doesn't work as well as non green and is more expensive. Plus.. I've found glues that clean up with water just don't hold up for extended periods of time.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on March 04, 2013, 08:24:20 am
I would have to ditto what Ms Puppet said. While I've not used that actual brand, I have tried similar water based contact cements and they just don't seem to work as well.  Others on the site here though have had better luck with water based products so it might work.  If you do give it a try let us know what you think.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: crash2.0 on March 04, 2013, 06:16:30 pm
as a puppet newb, i dont think I could give a good idea if it works well or not. I just found out that rubber cement and contact cement arn't the same thing... so what is the consensus on the best glue? Barge?


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Chris Arveson on March 04, 2013, 07:01:51 pm
I have used Barge and DAP Weldwood. I had no complaints with either, though I tend to think that Barge is somewhat stronger. The Barge also worked very well in gluing some shoe soles back on, lol.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on March 05, 2013, 07:48:15 am
I'll ditto Chris on his choice of brands. Barge can be hard to get a hold of at times so DAP brand is a great runner up for choice of brands.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: littleredpuppetry on July 13, 2013, 09:07:18 am
I have searched this site on many occasions and have gotten some great info but i am struggling right now with this and have been reading this thread. i have started the construction of the Avenue Q puppets for one of our local Community Theaters.  I have in the trial run of these had difficulty with the glue.   I currently have six heads cut and glued up. until the Dap Weldwood contact cement didnt work.. Then I tried the 3M 77 spray adhesive, which didnt hold. then I went back to rubber cement...which did not hold either. I believe the problem is not the glue alone but the thickness of the foam. These are larger, sturdier puppets and require thicker foam.  I think to glue up the darts and create the round shapes needed, it puts too much torque on the joints. I am going to try the Crafters Pick Ultimate mentioned in posts from quite a while back but frankly am skeptical of 1) if it will hold and 2) if it will hold on top of all the glue already tried and should I start from the beginning.  Your thoughts would be much appreciated!


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Animal31 on July 13, 2013, 11:13:09 am
Honestly, I still use mostly hot glue with both 1/2 and 1 inch foam an have never had an issue...no smell either!


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Out of the Box Puppets on July 13, 2013, 08:58:53 pm
Quick question about the weldwood...are you applying glue to both pieces of foam? Allowing it to become tacky then attaching?

Julie


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: littleredpuppetry on July 13, 2013, 09:14:32 pm
Yes, i applied to both sides. may have left it too long this time around, so it was no longer tacky enough...however, it has happened to me before when i have tried to use it. it just doesn't hold this thick foam. I have finally finished it up with hot glue. hate that i usually end up with blisters though. The next ones i will try the CP Ultimate.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Out of the Box Puppets on July 13, 2013, 09:32:06 pm
How thick is the foam? We use weldwood on all of our puppets large and small.  It need to be tacky, but not wet.  Also, if yu are gluing outside and it it to hot..to cold or extremely humid that can effect it as well.  We are in texas...lately close to 100, but still sticks as long as you work quick enough.

You can also bevel the inside edge which will take some of the presser off.

Julie


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: littleredpuppetry on July 13, 2013, 11:46:12 pm
hmmm....though it has been very humid, not sure thats it.  guess i will try it again.   Thanks so much for the insight!


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Snail on July 14, 2013, 07:19:57 am
Letting it dry too long makes a weaker bond, you can apply a tiny bit more to reactivate it sometimes.  Too much can make a rigid line that is not as smooth as thinner application.  I have to make sure I push it hard enough together without smashing the seam. "Contact" is part of the process and it needs to be held together hard enough to make a strong long lasting bond.  There have been times that I was in a hurry and I basted the foam seams with long looping stiches when I did not have time to glue, I used a long doll needle. I don't recommend stitching all the time, it is not as smooth as glue. It seems to me if your larger pieces need more reinforcement maybe you could make a few looping stiches on the inside of the seam to take some of the pressure off.  The application of tight covering fabric also adds some pressure to hold the seam together too.  Have not tried this but if the foam is very think maybe you could so something like the bisquit join that they use on wood.  They make a slit halfway down the side of the wood horizontally and glue in a small flat piece of wood


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on July 14, 2013, 07:58:11 am
I hear often the people have problems with using contact cement not holding but not really sure why. Like Julie I use it on everything including thick pieces of foam and have never had much of an issue. You do have to apply it to both sides and you do have to let it get tacky. Snail is right that pressure is the key to finishing off the bond.  Maybe it is the fact that my first experiences with contact cement was in use with shoe repair and counter tops. When you "rubber" a shoe (apply a rubber sole to the bottom) you put cement on both the rubber and the bottom of the shoe. You then let it set up. Once it is set you put it on a shoe anvil and bound it with a rubber mallet to make the bond. Kind of the same thing with applying a counter top lament. That is a lot of pressure to get the bond to hold so I realized the same has to apply to when making the puppet. :) Don't know if that is the issue that folks have but thought it may be worth pointing out.

In regards to using glue gun. I've never been a big fan of the method but it works great for many folks. I think the bond it just as good as contact cement but hate the blister effect. Also when you apply hot glue to foam the foam insulates and keeps the hot glue hot longer then when you use it with other things. I was working with another artist and they came up with the trick of using the compressed air in a can to cool down the hot glue once applied to the foam and joint made so it would bond faster. So they applied the glue, pressed the two pieces together and then hit it with a blast of the cold compressed air. Cooled it right down and made the bond set right away instead of having to hold the two pieces together why the glue slowly cooled down.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: littleredpuppetry on July 14, 2013, 08:55:29 am
It really must be me...letting it dry too long, or not long enough. I better figure it out or its going to be much more frustrating than necessary :)  Again. thank you all so much! 


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on July 15, 2013, 05:47:28 am
I've used the Weldwood gel formula before and it is a bit easier to spread evenly on foam. http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=36 (http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=36)  It seems to not soak into the foam quite as much as the regular contact adhesive.  Perhaps that would work better for you.  Just one more thought also... You are stirring up the contact adhesive really well right?  It tends to separate over time as it sits.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Out of the Box Puppets on July 15, 2013, 06:28:00 am
We use a scrap piece of foam about 2-2.5" wide by 3" or so long.  Dip the end into the contact cement just about 1/8" and remove.  Allow excess to drip off. Turn upside down to allow glue to soak into foam just until it looks like there isn't any sitting on top of the foam.  Using the foam, dab onto pieces that will be glued.  Repeat often.  As the foam scrap gets soaked and starts to bend or flop over with to much glue and pressure, cut off end for a fresh start.  Let the pieces dry just until the glue no longer feel cool. Join pieces, hold for a few seconds.

I prefer the original weldwood simply that the gel doesn't seem to go as far. We glue alot of pieces, so we try to make the supplies last as long as possible. Got to save those $

Julie


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: littleredpuppetry on July 15, 2013, 09:48:51 pm
ok i was back at it tonight. I had reglued with hot glue, just to hopefully get them to stay. some did some did not, so i went back to the weldwood. at the tackiest time i tried to put it together, and kept trying. it didnt stay at all. then the window was gone.  not sure if it doesnt work because of the other glues under it.  i stirred it, but it is pretty humid here tonight. gonna try with fresh pieces tomorrow. grrrr   thanks for all your support and ideas... i will not give up!!


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on July 16, 2013, 06:32:51 am
Are you doing this outside in the heat and humidity? Where do you live? For the most part I've had a workshop studio to work in where we had areas we could glue but they where still inside in a controlled environment. The times I've had to go outside to glue I often would go out and coat the pieces then bring them inside to set up. There is a temp range marked on the can and I know that most the country right now is outside that range so that may be the issue if you are doing this outside. The fumes can be harmful but I think if you coat outside and then can find someplace inside to bring them that is not too small a room and closed in you should be ok. Set up a fan on low to lay them in front of. This is more for fume distribution but can help the drying process.  Be aware though that small pieces can be blown across the room if the fan is on too high. ;)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Animal31 on July 17, 2013, 05:46:37 am
Are you using a multi-temp glue gun? I have one and use the low setting, you have to move quicker when setting the pieces, but I never had an issue like this......knock on wood! :)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Snail on July 17, 2013, 07:56:59 pm
Tackiest time? It seems to me that it is seems almost dry when it is ready to press to the other piece. It seems crazy that those two almost dry surfaces will stick together. If it is bone dry and hard that is too long, but it won't stick good if you try too early or it is still wet like.  It is hard to describe the right timing.  Maybe you could try some tests at different times to see which one works best for your situation.  


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: littleredpuppetry on July 25, 2013, 06:02:55 pm
So i am back at it tonight. the humidity was awful, so i had to wait it out. then i think my can of adhesive, which i attempted again yesterday to use, may no longer be good...the can does not close well...so possibly not as effective. i still had many seems coming apart...so tonight i got a new can of the weldwood contact cement..but this time it is the gel. we shall see. Also bought gorilla glue...  i will let you know how it goes.   again, I cant tell you how much i appreciate all the ideas and advise!!!

ok, an hour later and i am positive that it was the can of adhesive that was bad...this new stuff is awesome...however, must.use.outside.!


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Out of the Box Puppets on July 25, 2013, 06:59:14 pm
Don't use the gorilla glue on the foam.  You have to dampen the surface to activate the glue and it foams and expands. It's better for other surfaces.

Julie


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: littleredpuppetry on July 25, 2013, 07:24:02 pm
Thank you for that!! I was starting to feel desperate and would try anything...I will tuck it away for other household stuff.  i am sure my teenage son will need it for SOMEthing... :)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on July 26, 2013, 06:50:04 am
Yep I was going to say the same thing Julie did about Gorilla glue.  It can be a great adhesive but better for things that need space filled in when glued. :)  Glad to hear your new can of contact adhesive is working for you. Yep it can go "bad". Keep the rim of your new can cleaned off so it seal well. Something like acetone can be used to clean it up. You can even peel off old dried adhesive normally if it gets really bad.  While we are on the subject, it might be best for the occasional user if they buy the contact adhesive in the smaller tubes if they can find it. In fact often this is all I can find at hardware stores.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Snail on July 29, 2013, 05:41:33 pm
Glad you kept trying, it will pay off in the end.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: dluxpuppets on February 06, 2015, 10:38:48 am
Does anyone have any personal success using 3M Fastbond?

I heard about it from the Puppet Smith boards, in my search for a safer gluing alternative ( I glue in my garage and have twin toddlers.)

Does it hold well to L-200 and reticulated foam over time?

Here's a link to it -
http://www.amazon.com/3M-30NF-Fastbond-Contact-Adhesive/dp/B00QVINUP2/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1423244444&sr=1-1&keywords=3m+30nf+fastbond (http://www.amazon.com/3M-30NF-Fastbond-Contact-Adhesive/dp/B00QVINUP2/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1423244444&sr=1-1&keywords=3m+30nf+fastbond)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: jeezbo on February 07, 2015, 03:47:11 am
Hi dluxpuppets, I'm one of the Puppetsmiths and I know which glue you are talking about, and I can happily say that it works really well without the toxicity of the regular contact adhesives, the green stuff seems to be easily as good as any contact adhesive I have used, but you do have to adjust how to glue some foams, for example, L200 is a sturdy foam anyway and you have to take into account that it is less flexible than other foams, so with this new adhesive you simply have to have more for the foam to latch onto, so you rough up the edges of the L200 with a little glass paper and then apply the glue, it just gives it more to seep into and sometimes its a good idea to give it an extra coat of the glue before putting the two edges to be connected together. that is just one things, but there isn't much difference in most other applications other than it can be used in doors without any risk of you getting as high as a kite from the fumes!!


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: dluxpuppets on February 08, 2015, 02:21:54 pm
Jeezbo thank you so much for that answer I really appreciate it!!!


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Andrew on February 09, 2015, 01:10:57 pm
I'm not sure where that information about 3M Fastbond not being toxic came from, but it is not true at all. If you read its MSDS sheet (a copy can be found here (http://www.c-sgroup.com/files/tech-center/acrovyn/msds/pdf/3m_fastbond.pdf)) it contains toluene, which is at least a suspected carcinogen. There seems to be some disagreement about what level of exposure to toluene is considered safe, but even product manufacturers like 3M say to use their products with a NIOSH approved respirator in a ventilated area. It should certainly not be used indoors without ventilation or a respirator.

It is entirely possible that the amount/concentration of toluene and other chemicals in 3M Fastbond is lower than other adhesives (I don't actually know), but it should not be used in the vicinity of young children, or anyone who is not protected by a respirator. 3M Fastbond is toxic to ingest, it can cause blindness if exposed to your eyes and you shouldn't let it touch your skin (as bad as some of these adhesives are to inhale, they are worse to absorb through your skin).

Not smelling an adhesive does not mean it's not giving off fumes. If you use a toxic adhesive in a garage without a proper fume hood or spray booth and the garage connects to the rest of your house via central heating the chemicals can travel to other parts of your house. The only way to properly measure and detect toxic fumes is using an air quality measuring device like a gas badge or a solvent vapor tube. You should not rely on what you can and cannot smell, although if you can smell a solvent based adhesive you are likely being exposed to unsafe levels of it.

Any time you use any product you really must read the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) and should always follow its instructions. Generally speaking, the guidelines in an MSDS are the minimum safety precautions you should take with a product. Most companies like 3M are required to have product safety officers. You can call them and they will answer questions about how to use a product safely. One product safety officer I spoke to described customers who used his company's contact cement without ventilation and a respirator as "frankly, really stupid" so that gives you an idea about how toxic some of these glues can be.

Personally, if I had children I would not use any adhesives like 3M Fastbond (or anything solvent based) anywhere in the house without a spray booth. The best thing to do is just use it outside and wear gloves, eye protection and respirator as 3M recommends.

Sorry for the safety lecture everybody, but we're just making puppets. It's not worth risking anyone's health. :)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Snail on February 10, 2015, 07:21:28 pm
Here is the link to Human Health Effects of Toluene in the Hazardous Substance Database
http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search2/f?./temp/~aBCrUX:1 (http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search2/f?./temp/~aBCrUX:1)
I agree with Andrew, keep your kids safe because toxic effects are greater in children and older folks.  Why take any chance with your precious twins. Glue outside away from the kids or get a hood and keep those kids away from the glue by keeping it out of their reach, better safe than sorry.  Toluene is very similar to Benzene in chemical structure and Benzene may cause of leukemia. You should be careful of volatile organic chemicals (Toluene is one) used inside as they can catch fire if you have a water heater with an open flame in the garage.  Toluene and Benzene are both components of Gasoline. 


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: jeezbo on February 17, 2015, 03:50:10 am
oops!! maybe I am thinking of a different product then, as the stuff I use is non toxic and states that in the ingredient list, website, etc.. so its possible that I have given the wrong advice/info on the glue we are talking about, I am sorry if I have got my stuff mixed up!! I will have to take a look at the product I use and let you know what it is as it really is very good and totally non toxic.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Andrew on February 17, 2015, 02:56:29 pm
I would really love to know if you've found a non-toxic adhesive for foam that works! Our current workshop here in Canada doesn't have proper ventilation for solvents, so I just don't do much work with foam over the winter, which is not really ideal. I've found a few adhesives that are less toxic than contact cement, but nothing truly non-toxic. There is a way to make a solution with Weldbond (one of my favourite glues) to bond foam, but the seams are quite stiff and prone to cracking.


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: dluxpuppets on February 17, 2015, 11:33:01 pm
Andrew Thank you for all that information, I greatly appreciate. No need to apologize, no lecture, just useful info. I agree, at the end of the day, it's just puppets, no need to put others health at risk :)


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: dluxpuppets on February 17, 2015, 11:35:00 pm
Snail, thank you for the information!


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: dluxpuppets on February 17, 2015, 11:37:42 pm
Andrew, can you share a bit more on the less toxic glues that you utilize in your building?


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Andrew on February 18, 2015, 01:38:55 am
Well, as I said, we just don't do much work with foam during the winter simply because we don't have the proper ventilation. When the weather outside is above 10 degrees C I just use Lepage contact cement with a respirator.

Years ago I worked in a shop where we did a lot of experiments with different glues and found that slightly diluted Weldbond works, but isn't really practical because it takes to long to dry (one hour to dry and 24 hours to completely cure). I do use Weldbond for almost everything else though, it's an amazing (almost) all purpose glue that doubles as a sealer - it will bond almost anything except some plastics, rubbers and metals.

Beacon makes a non-toxic adhesive for various types of foam called Craft Foam Glue, has anyone ever tried that? http://www.beaconadhesives.com/cgcraft-foam.html (http://www.beaconadhesives.com/cgcraft-foam.html)




Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Na on February 22, 2015, 09:04:15 pm
Beacon makes a non-toxic adhesive for various types of foam called Craft Foam Glue, has anyone ever tried that? [url]http://www.beaconadhesives.com/cgcraft-foam.html[/url] ([url]http://www.beaconadhesives.com/cgcraft-foam.html[/url])


If it's anything like what I can get here:
http://www.helmar.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=38&virtuemart_category_id=5&Itemid=24 (http://www.helmar.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=38&virtuemart_category_id=5&Itemid=24)
Then yes... ish?

This is the only glue I use. It's much like PVA or Elmer's glue, and works great. It is non-toxic, non-smelling, dries clear, fast drying (maybe 30 minutes to dry but a couple of hours for complete bond), works on practically anything. And on foam it has flexible, invisible seams. I have about four or five small bottles (they don't sell larger ones in my local stores) and there's one sitting on my desk not a few inches from me. Obviously I can't compare the two products but the name makes me wonder if they're basically the same product. Honestly can't recommend my local version enough so maybe the Beacon one is worth a try?


Title: Re: Foam adheasives and glues.
Post by: Floydaroo on January 17, 2018, 03:52:08 pm
I use Elmer's No Wrinkle Rubber Cement. Still slightly toxic, but just working with it (not putting your nose in the container) is safe to do. And it's CHEAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thewave: