Puppets and Stuff

Puppet Construction => Tutorials => Topic started by: pagestep007 on June 30, 2012, 12:49:46 pm



Title: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on June 30, 2012, 12:49:46 pm
Hi Guys.
Some of you might be wanting to build sets for your productions. I found rocks were a  little tricky to figure out to do cheaply, effectively, and to store well, when I  first started out. But now I have had some reasonable success and I would like to share a few techniques. This first one is your classic news paper and cornflour paper mache, with a few tips to making it look quite reasonable.

http://youtu.be/8bERgsjvDFs (http://youtu.be/8bERgsjvDFs)


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Billy D. Fuller on June 30, 2012, 06:45:57 pm
Bravo! Is there anything you can not make. That was a rock solid video. Thanks again for sharing your talents with us.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Snail on June 30, 2012, 08:12:47 pm
I am surprised it holds it shape so well.  I never thought of using corn flower, always used wheat flour for paper mache. My artist brother in law showed me how to use sponge painting to make more detailed rock types, like granite. After basecoat we dripped several similar paint shades (white, grey, black) in a paper plate, stired it a tiny bit like two twirls and sponged it on lightly with big hole sponge. It looked pretty realistic, but we did not think of making it more 3D like your wall, good idea.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: melaine9 on June 30, 2012, 08:21:21 pm
Great video. Thanks for sharing!! :wave


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Rikka on June 30, 2012, 11:57:21 pm
I really like rocks- this is great. At times I had a few diffeculties following you, though. You talk quite fast for me as a non native speaker... ;)


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Lizzies Lair on July 01, 2012, 04:24:31 am
That was brilliant. Thank you.

On a side note, what I love most about people sharing these vids is an opportunity to put a face and voice to the name we all correspond with so readily. I wish more people would  :)


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on July 01, 2012, 07:36:23 am
Thanks for the video! You just can't beat good old papermache' for a quick and dirty application.  Never used corn flour. Good to know it works as a glue. :)  I love how light weight and portable these are.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on July 01, 2012, 11:50:02 am
Thanks for your comments. Billy, yes there are things I don't think I could make... but if I really need it, I'll give it a try.
Snail, any chance of you doing a tutorial on the granite  texture painting technique? I had a request for how to do a marbling texture, but never really got around to it. Maybe I should do that.
    Sorry Rika about my english, I have a kiwi accent, so it might be a bit difficult. I'll keep that in mind in the  future.
lizzie, your turn...I'd love to hear how broad your Auzzie accent is :)
and yes Shawn, they are lightweight, and store pretty well in the attic, and you just mix them around and  bend them around etc, and hey presto you have a new set  with very little work next time around.I also used flour and water when I was young. We didn't cook it, but  cooking the flour (I suppose flour would work too) makes it a lot more 'pastey'. They use arrowroot(sp?) here too, and even cook a root called yuka, until it totally  turns to gloop. The deal is that basically starch is what is doing the  gluing. Even potatoes would work , but would take a lot of cooking to get to the same  point as corn flour.And the secret, use lots of it and it has to dry totally  before you move it. It is very weak when damp, but solid when dry.

so.. another from my channel to make this a rock making thread..


http://youtu.be/_64wpGKEmHw (http://youtu.be/_64wpGKEmHw)

http://youtu.be/6Hd8MbXbzzs (http://youtu.be/6Hd8MbXbzzs)


http://youtu.be/oxRfzwCrgGs (http://youtu.be/oxRfzwCrgGs)


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: melaine9 on July 01, 2012, 03:17:18 pm
Thanks for sharing. Great ideas & tips.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Snail on July 01, 2012, 03:34:26 pm
Nice ideas thank you for sharing. Where did your beard go?  

Nooooo I am not going to do a video tutorial, my video camera and tripod are both broken and my sons are always borrowing my still camera.

I bought a marblizing paint kit many years ago, the techniques used were many of the same you use, mutlicolor mixing with natural sponge painting, splatter painting with toothbrush and popsicle stick, and veining with feather as paint brush.  

Once we needed a brick type wall and we used a cheap kitchen rectangle sponge but picked out some bits of the sponge with tweezers to make it more rough looking. That was the fastest wall I ever painted.  My Dad and brothers have air conditioning business and they saved me large cardboard boxes for my sets.  We reinforced the backside with thin strips of wood stapled in because the carboard would bow when only one side was painted.  

Then an art teacher taught me a good trick to lightly spray the back side of paper with water when painting only front side to keep paper from bowing with the moisture.  Sorry no pictures those sets are long gone and all I have are VHS tapes of performances. I need to figure out how to save VHS to digital before they crumble away.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on July 02, 2012, 09:05:19 pm
Snail,my beard is still on... The vids are in reverse order. The pressure is coming on to get the filming we are doing done, so I can trim it back. Filming is real slow though.
Pity about your camera. You need to do some VHS transfers pronto. USB converters are cheap and effective.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Rikka on July 03, 2012, 03:52:24 am
You rock!
I didn't get what type of glue you use, though.
This might work for close ups, too:
http://www.floristik-geschenke-bastel-shop.de/pic/Islandmoos-piniengruen-praepariert-Sparpack-600-g.1017-101-119-SPp.jpg (http://www.floristik-geschenke-bastel-shop.de/pic/Islandmoos-piniengruen-praepariert-Sparpack-600-g.1017-101-119-SPp.jpg)
This is prepared to be green, it's grey normally. I get it a the local florist shop, they have different shades of green, brown and grey and it is not expensive. I really like the music on the last. First. Well, the less bearded... ;)


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on July 03, 2012, 12:50:59 pm
Hey Rika, The florist stuff in english is lichen I think.('Islandmoos' in the link indicates it is, I think) I have used it on miniatures. I can find it in the countryside here, and you just dry it. After a while it goes brown so painting is necessary if you want it another color. When I use Photocopy paper to make rocks, I use PVA, white glue , Elmers, school craft glue, carpentry glue...you know that common white glue, with about a 50% water content. It sticks Photocopy paper well, but newspaper sucks it up, so it gets a little  expensive for me, so with the newspaper I used the cornflour paste.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Billy D. Fuller on July 03, 2012, 02:42:21 pm
Is corn flour the same as corn starch? Corn starch is used as a thickening agent in sauces here in the US.
(http://c3.soap.com/images/products/p/dcs/dcs-232b_1.jpg)


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on July 03, 2012, 04:47:40 pm
Yes, I think so Billy. Corn flour is used as thickening, or making custard. Give it a try


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: MsPuppet on July 03, 2012, 07:26:25 pm
Yes, corn flour and corn starch are the same. I remember trying to figure that out when we lived in Africa. LOL

Have you tried the spray paints that look like granite or stone?


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on July 03, 2012, 07:57:23 pm
Oh MsPuppet, you were in Africa? Wow(what part?). No I have not tried granite or stone sprays. Do tell more.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: MsPuppet on July 03, 2012, 09:18:17 pm
We were on a short term missions assignment in Nairobi, Kenya.  Loved it!  Beautiful people, beautiful place.  The altitude is high (400+ feet higher than Denver).  I had to adapt all my recipes. 

We lived just a few miles from the Nairobi Game Park. We had a pass, often would drive to the park just before the animals started moving in the evening. Unbelievable to see so many animals so near the city. We did some travel to other parts of Kenya including one of the large game parks.  Did a lot of fishing (large mouth bass).

The climate is wonderful. We have a picture of us standing on the equator, wearing sweaters! LOL. We always thought we would go back for a longer term, but it never worked out.
--------------------------------------------------

Here's a link for the stone spray. 

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=79 (http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=79)

They have all different ones. We've used them for some stuff in Sunday school and have been pleased with the results.



Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Rikka on July 04, 2012, 02:48:43 am
Sorry to hear that, Africa sounds so great!

Yes, it is a kind of lichen. Ours does not grow as big- may be we have the wrong kind or we have too much industry over here...


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on July 04, 2012, 08:02:43 am
Rika , I think it depends largely on climate, as to how well lichen grows.
yes Africa  sounds  interesting. We are only 10 degrees  north of the equator here, but  it  is  like  continual spring.. t-shirt weather, and  alight sweater on a cool day


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: StiqPuppet Productions on July 05, 2012, 12:30:19 am
Great vids...you are the man for all the detail work...keep them coming...I love learning from them.

StiqPuppets


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on July 21, 2012, 10:31:58 am
HI Guys, another rock version... Remember those Russian dolls that stack one inside the other? Well these rocks are similar, so you can store a whole bunch of them in a small space in your attic or studio storage area. Good for impromtude video recordings with your puppets. Throw some vegetatin between them too...

http://youtu.be/rfb5xYm2Ucc (http://youtu.be/rfb5xYm2Ucc)

(Don't worry Shawn, I didn't pop my stitches.. the plastic surgeon says they are coming on fine!)


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on July 21, 2012, 11:13:42 am
Wow Rock and Roll!   :spin  Really clever idea.  One quick question... why does the 50 - 50 pva glue to water not soak through your paper and end up gluing the different rocks together? Is it a matter of how much used or the paper you are using?

P.S. Glad you did not overdue it.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on July 21, 2012, 04:27:54 pm
I think it is quantity. You don't need much,and it dries fairly quickly, and the first layer, you are trying not to let it stick to the one below. Then from there a piece of cake. If it does stick for you, you can get a plastic shopping bag, open it up and then cover the rock below that you are moulding onto. You definitely have to do that if you use the cornstarch paste and newspaper, and it is slower, as you have to wait for the newspaper to dry overnight for each rock, so a good stack of them in  newspaper takes a while to achieve.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Snail on July 21, 2012, 07:00:12 pm
I am impressed with your organization and fore thought to make your video concise while covering a lot of variations. I always learn something new, even if I don't make more rocks there are ideas there that I can take away and use to be more efficient in other projects. Bravo again.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Gui on July 22, 2012, 04:21:32 pm
You definitely Rock!!! Awesome tutorials, impressive paintings and beautiful puppets! 


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on September 30, 2012, 11:10:44 am
Hi  everyone. One difficulty with paper Mache rocks is installing them in your set. You can make frames and  staple them, or tie them, but I have come up with a little clamp system that is even quicker and works in a number of situations by  clamping and  tying with  string. skip to half way through the vid to see how you can make them for almost free.

http://youtu.be/9VRKa_jQflI (http://youtu.be/9VRKa_jQflI)


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on September 30, 2012, 12:34:55 pm
Yet another brilliant cost saving DYI for tools!


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Snail on September 30, 2012, 04:13:16 pm
Love the tension thingys and the wooden screw head so you don't have to use a screwdriver. It is so much fun watching your work. Thanks again.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on October 04, 2012, 10:47:54 am
A quick update on clamping your rocks together, even quicker than the previous wooden clamps, and are cheap and simple to make.

http://youtu.be/wSJUYvgPH4g (http://youtu.be/wSJUYvgPH4g)


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Shawn Sorrell on October 04, 2012, 03:40:23 pm
So is there anything you can not manufacture? :)  I'm so glad you joined our little family here.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Angel in Tx on October 04, 2012, 05:58:17 pm
I agree with you Shawn, I'm wondering where he has been all this time!!! Keep it up Philip. Love your ideas!!!

 :thewave:


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: Snail on October 05, 2012, 06:31:36 am
Cool, I agree, so glad you are a contributor.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: melaine9 on October 06, 2012, 07:18:29 pm
you are an inspiration.!!!


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on October 06, 2012, 09:05:17 pm
Thank you guys, very kind comments. I am glad I found this group. You are a great bunch. Shawn....I am sure there are lots of things that will beat me. Electronics are one thing that I can only occasionally  repair.
   Angel, I have been around for a while :) , but just not been noticed. I grew up in New Zealand, a LONG way away from TV puppetry. The only program I knew of in NZ with puppets, I contacted, but I was in the wrong city. We came to South America...another handicap. And now we are only just starting to get  some interest. Compared to Jim Henson, we have done more hours of TV that he at the same stage in our careers, but he was a thousand times more lucrative, having done loads of advertising, which kept him in bread and butter. We have never been paid. Jim was in the right place at the right time.  I am hoping things here will start to  become the right place and time soon.


Title: Re: Paper Mache Rocks
Post by: pagestep007 on September 21, 2017, 08:20:46 pm
Hi Guys. I just did a  vid on rocks and  noticed I did not share the previous one here. So, if anyone is wanting to make some  rocks for your set... here are two more  for this thread :

texturing your rocks more:
http://youtu.be/2fjktMXpcjM (http://youtu.be/2fjktMXpcjM)

and a few tips in strengthening your rock panels.
http://youtu.be/8F2mrZ0OFzA (http://youtu.be/8F2mrZ0OFzA)