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Foam adheasives and glues.  (Read 69651 times)
Out of the Box Puppets
« Reply #75 on: July 13, 2013, 09:32:06 pm »

How thick is the foam? We use weldwood on all of our puppets large and small.  It need to be tacky, but not wet.  Also, if yu are gluing outside and it it to hot..to cold or extremely humid that can effect it as well.  We are in texas...lately close to 100, but still sticks as long as you work quick enough.

You can also bevel the inside edge which will take some of the presser off.

Julie
littleredpuppetry
« Reply #76 on: July 13, 2013, 11:46:12 pm »

hmmm....though it has been very humid, not sure thats it.  guess i will try it again.   Thanks so much for the insight!
Snail
« Reply #77 on: July 14, 2013, 07:19:57 am »

Letting it dry too long makes a weaker bond, you can apply a tiny bit more to reactivate it sometimes.  Too much can make a rigid line that is not as smooth as thinner application.  I have to make sure I push it hard enough together without smashing the seam. "Contact" is part of the process and it needs to be held together hard enough to make a strong long lasting bond.  There have been times that I was in a hurry and I basted the foam seams with long looping stiches when I did not have time to glue, I used a long doll needle. I don't recommend stitching all the time, it is not as smooth as glue. It seems to me if your larger pieces need more reinforcement maybe you could make a few looping stiches on the inside of the seam to take some of the pressure off.  The application of tight covering fabric also adds some pressure to hold the seam together too.  Have not tried this but if the foam is very think maybe you could so something like the bisquit join that they use on wood.  They make a slit halfway down the side of the wood horizontally and glue in a small flat piece of wood
Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2013, 07:58:11 am »

I hear often the people have problems with using contact cement not holding but not really sure why. Like Julie I use it on everything including thick pieces of foam and have never had much of an issue. You do have to apply it to both sides and you do have to let it get tacky. Snail is right that pressure is the key to finishing off the bond.  Maybe it is the fact that my first experiences with contact cement was in use with shoe repair and counter tops. When you "rubber" a shoe (apply a rubber sole to the bottom) you put cement on both the rubber and the bottom of the shoe. You then let it set up. Once it is set you put it on a shoe anvil and bound it with a rubber mallet to make the bond. Kind of the same thing with applying a counter top lament. That is a lot of pressure to get the bond to hold so I realized the same has to apply to when making the puppet. Smiley Don't know if that is the issue that folks have but thought it may be worth pointing out.

In regards to using glue gun. I've never been a big fan of the method but it works great for many folks. I think the bond it just as good as contact cement but hate the blister effect. Also when you apply hot glue to foam the foam insulates and keeps the hot glue hot longer then when you use it with other things. I was working with another artist and they came up with the trick of using the compressed air in a can to cool down the hot glue once applied to the foam and joint made so it would bond faster. So they applied the glue, pressed the two pieces together and then hit it with a blast of the cold compressed air. Cooled it right down and made the bond set right away instead of having to hold the two pieces together why the glue slowly cooled down.
littleredpuppetry
« Reply #79 on: July 14, 2013, 08:55:29 am »

It really must be me...letting it dry too long, or not long enough. I better figure it out or its going to be much more frustrating than necessary Smiley  Again. thank you all so much! 
Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2013, 05:47:28 am »

I've used the Weldwood gel formula before and it is a bit easier to spread evenly on foam. http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=36  It seems to not soak into the foam quite as much as the regular contact adhesive.  Perhaps that would work better for you.  Just one more thought also... You are stirring up the contact adhesive really well right?  It tends to separate over time as it sits.
Out of the Box Puppets
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2013, 06:28:00 am »

We use a scrap piece of foam about 2-2.5" wide by 3" or so long.  Dip the end into the contact cement just about 1/8" and remove.  Allow excess to drip off. Turn upside down to allow glue to soak into foam just until it looks like there isn't any sitting on top of the foam.  Using the foam, dab onto pieces that will be glued.  Repeat often.  As the foam scrap gets soaked and starts to bend or flop over with to much glue and pressure, cut off end for a fresh start.  Let the pieces dry just until the glue no longer feel cool. Join pieces, hold for a few seconds.

I prefer the original weldwood simply that the gel doesn't seem to go as far. We glue alot of pieces, so we try to make the supplies last as long as possible. Got to save those $

Julie
littleredpuppetry
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2013, 09:48:51 pm »

ok i was back at it tonight. I had reglued with hot glue, just to hopefully get them to stay. some did some did not, so i went back to the weldwood. at the tackiest time i tried to put it together, and kept trying. it didnt stay at all. then the window was gone.  not sure if it doesnt work because of the other glues under it.  i stirred it, but it is pretty humid here tonight. gonna try with fresh pieces tomorrow. grrrr   thanks for all your support and ideas... i will not give up!!
Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #83 on: July 16, 2013, 06:32:51 am »

Are you doing this outside in the heat and humidity? Where do you live? For the most part I've had a workshop studio to work in where we had areas we could glue but they where still inside in a controlled environment. The times I've had to go outside to glue I often would go out and coat the pieces then bring them inside to set up. There is a temp range marked on the can and I know that most the country right now is outside that range so that may be the issue if you are doing this outside. The fumes can be harmful but I think if you coat outside and then can find someplace inside to bring them that is not too small a room and closed in you should be ok. Set up a fan on low to lay them in front of. This is more for fume distribution but can help the drying process.  Be aware though that small pieces can be blown across the room if the fan is on too high. Wink
Animal31
« Reply #84 on: July 17, 2013, 05:46:37 am »

Are you using a multi-temp glue gun? I have one and use the low setting, you have to move quicker when setting the pieces, but I never had an issue like this......knock on wood! Smiley
Snail
« Reply #85 on: July 17, 2013, 07:56:59 pm »

Tackiest time? It seems to me that it is seems almost dry when it is ready to press to the other piece. It seems crazy that those two almost dry surfaces will stick together. If it is bone dry and hard that is too long, but it won't stick good if you try too early or it is still wet like.  It is hard to describe the right timing.  Maybe you could try some tests at different times to see which one works best for your situation.  
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 08:09:41 pm by Snail »
littleredpuppetry
« Reply #86 on: July 25, 2013, 06:02:55 pm »

So i am back at it tonight. the humidity was awful, so i had to wait it out. then i think my can of adhesive, which i attempted again yesterday to use, may no longer be good...the can does not close well...so possibly not as effective. i still had many seems coming apart...so tonight i got a new can of the weldwood contact cement..but this time it is the gel. we shall see. Also bought gorilla glue...  i will let you know how it goes.   again, I cant tell you how much i appreciate all the ideas and advise!!!

ok, an hour later and i am positive that it was the can of adhesive that was bad...this new stuff is awesome...however, must.use.outside.!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 06:51:35 pm by littleredpuppetry »
Out of the Box Puppets
« Reply #87 on: July 25, 2013, 06:59:14 pm »

Don't use the gorilla glue on the foam.  You have to dampen the surface to activate the glue and it foams and expands. It's better for other surfaces.

Julie
littleredpuppetry
« Reply #88 on: July 25, 2013, 07:24:02 pm »

Thank you for that!! I was starting to feel desperate and would try anything...I will tuck it away for other household stuff.  i am sure my teenage son will need it for SOMEthing... Smiley
Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #89 on: July 26, 2013, 06:50:04 am »

Yep I was going to say the same thing Julie did about Gorilla glue.  It can be a great adhesive but better for things that need space filled in when glued. Smiley  Glad to hear your new can of contact adhesive is working for you. Yep it can go "bad". Keep the rim of your new can cleaned off so it seal well. Something like acetone can be used to clean it up. You can even peel off old dried adhesive normally if it gets really bad.  While we are on the subject, it might be best for the occasional user if they buy the contact adhesive in the smaller tubes if they can find it. In fact often this is all I can find at hardware stores.
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