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Foam adheasives and glues.  (Read 51283 times)
Snail
« Reply #90 on: July 29, 2013, 05:41:33 pm »

Glad you kept trying, it will pay off in the end.
dluxpuppets
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« Reply #91 on: February 06, 2015, 10:38:48 am »

Does anyone have any personal success using 3M Fastbond?

I heard about it from the Puppet Smith boards, in my search for a safer gluing alternative ( I glue in my garage and have twin toddlers.)

Does it hold well to L-200 and reticulated foam over time?

Here's a link to it -
http://www.amazon.com/3M-30NF-Fastbond-Contact-Adhesive/dp/B00QVINUP2/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1423244444&sr=1-1&keywords=3m+30nf+fastbond
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 10:43:41 am by dluxpuppets »
jeezbo
« Reply #92 on: February 07, 2015, 03:47:11 am »

Hi dluxpuppets, I'm one of the Puppetsmiths and I know which glue you are talking about, and I can happily say that it works really well without the toxicity of the regular contact adhesives, the green stuff seems to be easily as good as any contact adhesive I have used, but you do have to adjust how to glue some foams, for example, L200 is a sturdy foam anyway and you have to take into account that it is less flexible than other foams, so with this new adhesive you simply have to have more for the foam to latch onto, so you rough up the edges of the L200 with a little glass paper and then apply the glue, it just gives it more to seep into and sometimes its a good idea to give it an extra coat of the glue before putting the two edges to be connected together. that is just one things, but there isn't much difference in most other applications other than it can be used in doors without any risk of you getting as high as a kite from the fumes!!
dluxpuppets
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« Reply #93 on: February 08, 2015, 02:21:54 pm »

Jeezbo thank you so much for that answer I really appreciate it!!!
Andrew
« Reply #94 on: February 09, 2015, 01:10:57 pm »

I'm not sure where that information about 3M Fastbond not being toxic came from, but it is not true at all. If you read its MSDS sheet (a copy can be found here) it contains toluene, which is at least a suspected carcinogen. There seems to be some disagreement about what level of exposure to toluene is considered safe, but even product manufacturers like 3M say to use their products with a NIOSH approved respirator in a ventilated area. It should certainly not be used indoors without ventilation or a respirator.

It is entirely possible that the amount/concentration of toluene and other chemicals in 3M Fastbond is lower than other adhesives (I don't actually know), but it should not be used in the vicinity of young children, or anyone who is not protected by a respirator. 3M Fastbond is toxic to ingest, it can cause blindness if exposed to your eyes and you shouldn't let it touch your skin (as bad as some of these adhesives are to inhale, they are worse to absorb through your skin).

Not smelling an adhesive does not mean it's not giving off fumes. If you use a toxic adhesive in a garage without a proper fume hood or spray booth and the garage connects to the rest of your house via central heating the chemicals can travel to other parts of your house. The only way to properly measure and detect toxic fumes is using an air quality measuring device like a gas badge or a solvent vapor tube. You should not rely on what you can and cannot smell, although if you can smell a solvent based adhesive you are likely being exposed to unsafe levels of it.

Any time you use any product you really must read the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) and should always follow its instructions. Generally speaking, the guidelines in an MSDS are the minimum safety precautions you should take with a product. Most companies like 3M are required to have product safety officers. You can call them and they will answer questions about how to use a product safely. One product safety officer I spoke to described customers who used his company's contact cement without ventilation and a respirator as "frankly, really stupid" so that gives you an idea about how toxic some of these glues can be.

Personally, if I had children I would not use any adhesives like 3M Fastbond (or anything solvent based) anywhere in the house without a spray booth. The best thing to do is just use it outside and wear gloves, eye protection and respirator as 3M recommends.

Sorry for the safety lecture everybody, but we're just making puppets. It's not worth risking anyone's health. Smiley
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 06:31:47 pm by Andrew »
Snail
« Reply #95 on: February 10, 2015, 07:21:28 pm »

Here is the link to Human Health Effects of Toluene in the Hazardous Substance Database
http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search2/f?./temp/~aBCrUX:1
I agree with Andrew, keep your kids safe because toxic effects are greater in children and older folks.  Why take any chance with your precious twins. Glue outside away from the kids or get a hood and keep those kids away from the glue by keeping it out of their reach, better safe than sorry.  Toluene is very similar to Benzene in chemical structure and Benzene may cause of leukemia. You should be careful of volatile organic chemicals (Toluene is one) used inside as they can catch fire if you have a water heater with an open flame in the garage.  Toluene and Benzene are both components of Gasoline. 
jeezbo
« Reply #96 on: February 17, 2015, 03:50:10 am »

oops!! maybe I am thinking of a different product then, as the stuff I use is non toxic and states that in the ingredient list, website, etc.. so its possible that I have given the wrong advice/info on the glue we are talking about, I am sorry if I have got my stuff mixed up!! I will have to take a look at the product I use and let you know what it is as it really is very good and totally non toxic.
Andrew
« Reply #97 on: February 17, 2015, 02:56:29 pm »

I would really love to know if you've found a non-toxic adhesive for foam that works! Our current workshop here in Canada doesn't have proper ventilation for solvents, so I just don't do much work with foam over the winter, which is not really ideal. I've found a few adhesives that are less toxic than contact cement, but nothing truly non-toxic. There is a way to make a solution with Weldbond (one of my favourite glues) to bond foam, but the seams are quite stiff and prone to cracking.
dluxpuppets
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« Reply #98 on: February 17, 2015, 11:33:01 pm »

Andrew Thank you for all that information, I greatly appreciate. No need to apologize, no lecture, just useful info. I agree, at the end of the day, it's just puppets, no need to put others health at risk Smiley
dluxpuppets
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« Reply #99 on: February 17, 2015, 11:35:00 pm »

Snail, thank you for the information!
dluxpuppets
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« Reply #100 on: February 17, 2015, 11:37:42 pm »

Andrew, can you share a bit more on the less toxic glues that you utilize in your building?
Andrew
« Reply #101 on: February 18, 2015, 01:38:55 am »

Well, as I said, we just don't do much work with foam during the winter simply because we don't have the proper ventilation. When the weather outside is above 10 degrees C I just use Lepage contact cement with a respirator.

Years ago I worked in a shop where we did a lot of experiments with different glues and found that slightly diluted Weldbond works, but isn't really practical because it takes to long to dry (one hour to dry and 24 hours to completely cure). I do use Weldbond for almost everything else though, it's an amazing (almost) all purpose glue that doubles as a sealer - it will bond almost anything except some plastics, rubbers and metals.

Beacon makes a non-toxic adhesive for various types of foam called Craft Foam Glue, has anyone ever tried that? http://www.beaconadhesives.com/cgcraft-foam.html


Na
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« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2015, 09:04:15 pm »

Beacon makes a non-toxic adhesive for various types of foam called Craft Foam Glue, has anyone ever tried that? http://www.beaconadhesives.com/cgcraft-foam.html


If it's anything like what I can get here:
http://www.helmar.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=38&virtuemart_category_id=5&Itemid=24
Then yes... ish?

This is the only glue I use. It's much like PVA or Elmer's glue, and works great. It is non-toxic, non-smelling, dries clear, fast drying (maybe 30 minutes to dry but a couple of hours for complete bond), works on practically anything. And on foam it has flexible, invisible seams. I have about four or five small bottles (they don't sell larger ones in my local stores) and there's one sitting on my desk not a few inches from me. Obviously I can't compare the two products but the name makes me wonder if they're basically the same product. Honestly can't recommend my local version enough so maybe the Beacon one is worth a try?
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