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I'm back! (Iokitek)  (Read 2905 times)
2HeadedMonster
« on: June 08, 2008, 06:50:40 am »

Hey everyone!
Smiley

Yes I've been away for about 2 years but creating things is in my blood and I just can't let go of the desire to make puppets. All this time I've just been very distacted with finding myself so to speak.

While studying all kinds of psychological techniques I came across the concept of mentalism a few weeks ago. This is also a site dedicated to magic so if anyone has any resources for me I'd love to hear from you ofcourse. I'm just a beginner though but I'm playing with the idea of creating a mentalism act with a handpuppet. So instead of me being the mentalist the puppet is. I'm sure there are acts like this already though so again if you know of any on youtube or something please let me know.

Once/if I get more practiced in the art of mentalism I will surely give reviews on books etc.

see you around then!
Wink
glad to be back amongst all you friendly and helpfull folks
Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2008, 07:06:14 am »

Hey Welcome back!  If you would have stopped back in about a month earlier your old account would have still be active. Smiley  We just did a house cleaning of old accounts.

You might want to check out Henry's site. He just posted about Puppet Cards.  He does magic with puppets... oh wait Henry is a puppet. Wink
2HeadedMonster
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2008, 07:08:56 am »

Hey Shawn Smiley long time no see

I got the email actually but I forgot to respond  Cool it's ok any account will do. I''m starting with a clean slate anyway.

thanks for the tip I'll check it out Smiley
Billy D. Fuller
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2008, 08:26:53 am »

Welcome Back! I'm glad you are back to join in. " Magic and Puppets........... What a great combination.

Billy D.
StiqPuppet Productions
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2008, 12:28:54 pm »

 welcome Back

Thanks for taking the time to check in and let us know what you are doing.

Daryl H

MRHIP
No Avatar
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2008, 05:48:13 am »

Hi:

I've been a magician for 40 years.

There have been a few magicians that have used puppetry in the past, but I can't recall any mentalists doing so.  Doesn't mean that it wouldn't work.  One of the aspects of mentalism is that there are no decorative props to dress up the act, so the appeal is all on the personality and presentational skills of the performer.  A puppet would lend a fresh approach.

A good starting point is 13 Steps to Mentalism by Tony Corinda.  The book is a compilation of 13 pamphlets published many years ago, but the material is still valid.  You should be able to find a copy online or at a well stocked magic store.

In the last 20 years learning magic has undergone a revolution, videos.  There are literally hundreds of videos available out there.  Check out A-1 Multimedia, one of the biggest producers.

Let me know if I can recommend any other books or sources.

Marty
Ron G.
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2008, 09:44:26 am »

Great to see you back, Rob, and I love your idea of doing a mentalist act with a puppet!

 wave

Ron G.

PS
Marty - Thanks for your suggestions, you are a great resource for our members here. thumbsup
MRHIP
No Avatar
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2008, 02:25:33 pm »

My pleasure.  Let me know (anyone) if you have trouble locating sources of info on magic.  I won't reveal secrets, methods, etc, but if anyone has the desire to do the work I'm more than happy to open the door.

Marty
MRHIP
No Avatar
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2008, 02:27:11 pm »

Also, there is a comedy club magician (name?) that does a "find a card" trick with a trained parrot.  That's the closest to a performer using a puppet that I'm currently aware of.

Marty
aengus
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2008, 03:07:36 pm »

This must be the time fore people coming back, I'm make note to stop by here more often.

If you have any questions on card/coin tricks or most any slight of hand techniques, I can help. It's a hobby I picked up this year and am getting quite good at it.

Cheers

aengus

P.S. Happy Brithday to me
2HeadedMonster
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2008, 02:22:59 am »

Thanks for the responses everyone! Smiley But that is why I've always liked this community alot.

Marty I will surely go look for it online Cool I just downloaded 250+ magician and illusionist books though wich will keep me busy for ages I think. I realized quickly that magicians are very secretive about their techniques wich makes sense ofcourse. Most tricks explained for free online are the ones I can see through in an instant.

Why I'm interested in mentalism more than magic is because I want to baffle people without the use of (rigged) props, having to learn slight of hand, etc. Smiley I want to use cold reading and the power of suggestion and NLP techniques to mess with people's perception of what's going on. Right now I'm reading Pure Effect (out of print and very very expensive if you want to buy it) by Derren Brown and I'm learning alot from him already. Especially about how to grab your audience with something that seems completely new but based on the same old principles. it's all about showmanship.

Here's a good example of Derren Brown using a ventriloquist puppet in his program Trick or Treat:
(WARNING:contains some strong language)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCW-ZSlBweE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd3dzTAALd8
Poor Andy Evil

Right now I'm toying with the idea of creating an act in wich I let people participate in a fairytale. For instance I let a woman eat an apple and then have her fall asleep or put her in a trance Wink Once I figure out how to do that. Then I have 7 cards with emotions representing the 7 dwarfs wich I will do stuff with. But I'm not sure about the details yet. I think creating a show with a recognizable theme around it though will keep an audience very entertained and involved. People also know these stories very well so you can use their expectations to your advantage. Storytelling is a big aspect of mentalism. The more you speak to your subject(s) and the audience the more suggestions you can put into their minds.

I've got a long way to go before I've learned and practiced enough aspects of mentalism though. But I have all day to study and I'm very morivated Cool I said that I would write reviews and I've realized that although it's fine to help people along the way like marty does, other illusionists would not like it if I'd reveal too much. So maybe a secured magician section would be an idea eventually.

PS: Happy Birthday to you Aengus! wave
2HeadedMonster
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2008, 06:17:52 am »

After skimming through the site for abit I noticed you puppetpeople have been very busy and alot has changed Smiley I have alot of new puppetbuilding info to check up on thanks to you guys/girls. Hopefully it'll help me get over some of the problems I had figuring out stuff before.
MRHIP
No Avatar
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2008, 07:03:37 am »

Morning:

RE. your prior post, you have some ambitious goals, but they are definitely doable.

Cold reading and NLP are both very powerful when mastered.  They aren't, however, surefire techniques.  While perfecting them it is a good idea to implement them into an effect that is more cut and dried.  A good example is a card technique called the Classic Force which you should be able to find in your downloaded library.  It depends in large part on psychology and reading body language so there is good chance of failure when learning.  Most teachers of magic say that to be sure you end up with some results in the initial stages of learning it that it be incorporated into another effect or that you at least have a back up plan if it doesn't work.  There is nothing worse than having an effect fail in front of an audience.  It kind of feels like you're up there with your pants down and no place to go.  Then, as you gain confidence and competence with the technique it can be left to stand alone, but there is always the chance that it can fail.

Same way with Cold Reading (on which there is a chapter in Corinda).  Jonathan Edwards (Connections) uses this technique almost exclusively.  To get the results seen on his show about 20 hours of footage shot is rejected for every hour of broadcast.  His back up plan is to edit down!

I like your ideas about storytelling.  You can create very solid conviction by incorporating a story into magic.  This avoid the, "And now I'm gonna...." style of process patter that is dull and non-entertaining.  I'm not sure about literally putting an audience volunteer to sleep or into a trance.  If this is practical I would like to know about it.

On your point about having a long way to go, there is some validity.  Don't box yourself into a perfectionist corner however.  Try working up some material and then practice it under live fire.  In particular, the psychological techniques you into to use require an audience for practice.

Finally, the 250+ books you downloaded, wwhat is the source?

Marty 
2HeadedMonster
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2008, 07:47:15 am »

mornin' Wink

I just read about EAC (Eye Accessing Cues) wich basicly states that you can tell what someone is thinking by checking their eye movements. This is a part of NLP and you're absolutely right that it's not foolproof at all.

left eye looking up = accessing past memory
right eye = imagining future (could be a lie, imagination)
sideways = listening for sounds
down left = internal dialogue
down right = accessing emotions

usually when someone lies they can stare straight at you though. This is all good knowledge to help dicover when someone is lying to you. You can ask them questions repeatedly and watch their responses. But it's never foolproof. I think it's just a handy extra tool but not something to rely on solely.

I can force people to choose the 7 of hearts as a card wich usually works Smiley but I wish to make them pick other cards when they want me to try again Wink I can also make people think of a carrot when asked to think of a vegetable. Some things also work in combination. if someone just picked a carrot and you ask them to pick a color they won't pick orange because in their minds they just had that. I can sometimes steer people to choose yellow but it's a tough one since people have favorite colors usually. Also if you ask a group of people to pick a number between 1 and 10 you'll find that most people will choose 7 every time while another large portion will choose 3 Smiley so you can pretend to have predicted that upfront and work that into your act as just one part extra for them to wonder about.

But these are all simple standard things and I really do need to learn more. I do like using them as practice tricks when I'm in a one on one conversation with someone because I like to see what kind of factors influence people's decisions. Sometimes when these kinds of subjects come up during conversation I just throw it in there Wink but afterwards I tell them it was a trick without explaining how I did it. And I thank them for letting me test it on them.

Yeah I don't like the editing down idea either Wink then you might aswell work for a movie company and create special effects. A true mentalist/illusionist can also perform on the streets without failing. I must admit failing would seem horrible but sometimes there are ways out of that wich the audience will accept. Like I said if you made them choose the number 7 and the rest of your act fails most people will still be impressed by that. often when I bombard people with tricks they don't care if I didn't get the first one right. They are absolutely impressed by the most simple tricks that did go well. I just never give up until I impress Wink so keep your safest tricks for last. You can also do it like Tommy Cooper did Wink and magically mess up everything.

anyway thanks for the support marty Smiley very cool. I'll send you a pm about the books
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 08:11:38 am by 2HeadedMonster »
Henry
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2008, 04:54:54 am »

Wow 2HeadedMonster those videos really spun me out.

Looks like some serious Magic going down there.

All a bit dark for me, my Mentalisim act is a lot lighter. I hope Funny.

Here have a look at it.

http://henryringmaster.com/HRMetalisim.wmv

PS: I would love a pm on the books too.

Regards

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