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"small mouth" puppet head - help  (Read 18643 times)
tsu
« on: October 06, 2009, 06:09:09 pm »

Hi guys,

Been awhile since I've posted anything on there.
I need your priceless help how to solve a problem with a small mouth puppet head.
It may be hard to explain in words so I attach some sample photos of what I'm talking about.

Puppets usually got their mouth very wide. I mean --- looking at the front of the head, the mouth covers all its front part, from side to side, like here*:
IMG_2588

But I would like to gain something like on the pictures* below.
A mouth that gives me "natural cheeks", a spare distance/length between edge of a mouth and an edge of the head.

n504337965_1131694_5811 1117_08_08_07_11_49_51



I know I can just cut a small hole but I don't want to do this that way (it may limit the movement of the mouth I suppose?), I would prefer a pattern/the tips for this specific head. It doesn't matter what kind of shape this head would have, I always can modify existing one.
If anybody has a free pattern and would like to share it - I will appreciate it.
Or if anybody do know how to prepare a pattern for this kind of puppet and would be willing to create one for me - I will pay for your effort.

Maybe an answer is easier than I think, but I really can't figure it out.

Could anybody please help me?


*Sorry for using your photos as examples, hope you don't mind guys.
Jon
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2009, 06:33:52 pm »

Part of the reason why the puppets you pictured appear to have mouths that don't span the width of the head is an illusion. By making the head narrow toward the bottom and giving a clearly defined chin and cheaks held to create that illusion. Continuing the face color into the mouth helps to support that illusion as well.  There may be other tricks as well but those are the ones I noticed.
tsu
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2009, 06:39:04 pm »

Jon, but what about a picture I drew myself? It's not an illusion.
I've seen one puppet somewhere on here that had a smaller mouth than puppet on my pic - but unfortunately I was not able to find it in the gallery (searched twice).
Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2009, 07:54:17 pm »

I don't think there are any patterns out there either free or to buy that really demonstrates this. You are right that simply cutting a smaller mouth opening is not going to really work. You can make "small' mouth puppets by carving them out of a block of foam but that can be difficult. If you wanted to try that the secret to success on that is to carve the mouth in the open position.  Inserting the hand into the puppet closes the mouth.

To pattern a puppet like this the best place to start is with the mouth plate. Make one that fits your hand. Then build the upper and lower lip on to that.  You then build the rest of the head on to the "back" of that. If you look close at the pictures and try to visualize the foam shapes under the fleece you might be able to tell what I am talking about.  The covering of fleece makes it look like it is all one piece so to speak. Smiley  This is easiest for me to see on the green puppet you posted a picture of by dillypuppets.  Wish I could be more help.
jeezbo
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2009, 08:02:29 am »

i personally don't think that there is any 'illusion' to having area either side of the mouth, i have made many puppets in my time that have mouths smaller that their actual head circumference, the easiest example of this i think is the puppets Brazil pattern, where the foam 'mouth' is actually folded in onto the mouthplate to create a 'puckery' cheek effect that gives space either side of the mouth!! unfortunately there is no real pattern as such, but if you where to take the puppets Brazil pattern and experiment, I'm sure you would come up with something great, but for something really tailored to the exact detail and specifications it has to be a carved foam head like Shaun says, just take a look at furry puppet studios wonderful creations and you will see what can be achieved by carving a foam block!!
i hope that this gives you some sort of idea, i will rack my brains and see what i can come up with, but in the mean time, good luck and have fun experimenting!!
Ben.
Angel in Tx
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2009, 10:20:53 am »

Are you thinking of something like this?  I don't have a pattern, but I thought of this puppet when I read your post.
http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Bunsen_Honeydew

HTH
Angel in TX
Jon
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2009, 10:44:32 am »

In regards to the "illusion" I was refering only to the puppets in the pictures.  As to the drawing and to bunson honeydew that is a different matter all together.

Like Shawn said I think you have to start with the mouth and the  basic geometric shape of the head (spherical, egg, foot ball, etc.)  Then insert the mouth into the head.

I would think that you would need to plan the mouth so that it was at least part way open to ease the opening and closing.  This would also reduce distortion of the puppet when in use.

Depending on the puppet you can also leave gaps in the foam that are hidden by the fabric skin to futher reduce resistence.
Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2009, 05:29:14 pm »

Great example Miguel!  It looks like that puppet was patterned out of 1/2 foam and glued much like the Project Puppets but instead of working the mouth into the initial pattern it was then cut out of the foam in an open position.  If you wanted an oval shaped head you could start with the eight piece "football" method and then go from there. In the picture that Miguel linked to I first thought that the folds at the side of the mouth where carved but I think they are thin pieces of foam laid on top of the 1/2 foam.
Jon
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2009, 06:47:09 am »

What a great photo.  I imbedded it directly into my post.



It really shows how this builder accomplished the task.  If you have Dr. Puppets head pattern you should be able to alter it to create a similar mouth design.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 06:49:46 am by Jon »
jeezbo
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2009, 07:50:55 am »

this is a fantastic example, I've never seen Dr puppets pattern, but making up a head pattern like this to exact proportions is quite difficult, so i hope that you are ready for some major experimentation!! the spike lee puppet was made by pasha from project puppet, so it only goes to say that the king of puppet patterns might be able to give you some help on constructing a pattern to your specifications!!
god luck!!
Ben.
miguel
No Avatar
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2009, 08:07:27 am »

That's true! He will be the best person to give advise like that.
tsu
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2009, 03:36:06 am »

Thanks guys.

I'm now surrounded with 11 different puppets' heads.
tsu
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2009, 02:18:45 am »

once I was thinking about buying those patterns but they're not in DVD format unfortunately (I haven't any VHS player).

But thanks anyway.
StiqPuppet Productions
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2009, 04:14:36 pm »

Actually they have a DVD out now you just need to ask......they are trying to sell of there VHS ones first then move to the new medium....I own the DVD for about 3 years now....one of the first to own it since I requested it and they were in the mids of upgrading there video......this may change your mind now? Cool

Daryl H
tsu
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2009, 05:22:01 am »

oh yeah. :D
I'll write to them.

Thx Daryl. Smiley
DansPuppets
No Avatar
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2009, 11:22:34 am »

The actual pattern isnt on a DVD though is it? I thought they were pre-cut pieces?

Billy D. Fuller
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2009, 03:31:53 pm »

once I was thinking about buying those patterns but they're not in DVD format unfortunately (I haven't any VHS player).

But thanks anyway.

I had the VHS transferred to DVD....................... If anyone plans to try and get the patterns from the DVD. They were very clever in filming the video and used different angles to keep that from happening. Video is only good when used with a kit.
Just a note for those interested

Billy D.
StiqPuppet Productions
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2009, 05:21:27 pm »

I second that on what Billy said.....however the DVD has many great hints on making professional puppets with foam and fleece.

Daryl H
petriknz
No Avatar
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2017, 01:40:52 am »

And in 2017 none of that is to be found anymore. :-(
pagestep007
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2017, 06:22:52 am »

A retro thread Smiley... Dr._Bunsen_Honeydew is till there and spikes head too. Are you wanting to make a small mouth puppet?  It is as Shawn says, start with your mouth piece, or go with a Plasticine model/masking tape design process. The important thing is to have a seam from the corners of the mouth, joining face to chin pieces, and then sewing mouth cloth into the resulting mouth hole.The rest of the form can then go from there. If the mouth is flush with the face like Dr._Bunsen_Honeydew, you will need to reduce the foam thicknesses around the mouth so the foams compress better when opening the mouth, if the mouth extrudes, you will have a more comfortable hand positioning inside the puppet.
pagestep007
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2017, 06:54:43 am »

 Just an added note...Shawn does a sterling job of keeping things orderly behind the scenes. But some threads do age and links come and go. It is good when people like yourself read through an old thread and do a summary post.That saves shawn a lot of time and helps the rest of us, as well as yourself. What you can do is write a summary of what you have read and collect all the links you have found still work, and list them all in the same post. This way a new user will open on the last post and get your summary, and it will stimulate new discussion and help. There may even be new and better links that people have come across but have not posted yet. And the info you are looking for, if you still can't find it, just ask. We generally love to help.
petriknz
No Avatar
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2017, 01:32:47 pm »

Just an added note...Shawn does a sterling job of keeping things orderly behind the scenes. But some threads do age and links come and go. It is good when people like yourself read through an old thread and do a summary post.That saves shawn a lot of time and helps the rest of us, as well as yourself. What you can do is write a summary of what you have read and collect all the links you have found still work, and list them all in the same post. This way a new user will open on the last post and get your summary, and it will stimulate new discussion and help. There may even be new and better links that people have come across but have not posted yet. And the info you are looking for, if you still can't find it, just ask. We generally love to help.

Great idea Philip. And thanks for all the videos you have done. It's really helping my understanding. I'm working on an arts and crafts community and supplies website for New Zealanders and planning to introduce puppet making into our mix. Hence my researching. I'll start collecting some working links and get a post up later this week. Yours will be in the mix.
cuttlefishstudio
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2017, 10:15:39 am »

https://youtu.be/71gEO44AYwI?t=2m27s
saw this thought it might help cause i have been trying to do this to
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