Thanks Mike! That's quite helpful. Nice looking mech too. Where did you get the spring? I ordered a small spring from Amazon to experiment with, but I'm not sure what size would be best so I'm flying blind on that.

Brake cable is going to work fine depending on the weight of the head and the resistance encountered when you turn the head. Also, the length and diameter of the cable will be a factor too. I tested that method on my puppet that is attached to the bicycle. I wanted his head to turn and look up and down . I used cable for the turning movement and a string system with elastic string for the up and down motion. It's disassembled now getting ready for costuming and I didn't take pictures. I'll post some when I begin putting it back together. But, I can tell you the cable will work with turning if its a short cable. Otherwise I think you're going to get kinks. From the waist to the shoulder though...hmmm...that may work. Mine is only like 14" long and has little resistance.  It's pretty straight run too. straight up to the head with no bends.  It worked for me.

I intend to do another production in 2011 with an eight headed dragon. I plan to use flex conduit for the controls on that. Maybe that would be something you would consider depending on the size of your puppet. Or thicker diam cable? Bike brake cable is kinda small.

Thanks for the input, Russel. In another thread here, mike said that Woodbabies use flexible pushrods meant for model airplanes. I've seen Woodbabies in videos and they seem to have no trouble with both twisting and nodding motions, so if the bike cable doesn't work I'll try that. At this point I'm just experimenting with the mechanics and I really can't afford the best materials, but I'm taking notes for later. I ordered a cheap brake cable on Amazon, it should arrive in a couple of days. I'll let y'all know how things turn out, with pictures when I have some.

On a different note, another method of making a ball joint occurred to me, similar to Shawn's paper mache method. If you made a ball and socket from clay, you could make them hollow and poke holes in them to string elastic through. Then you wouldn't have to deal with keeping the pieces together as much. I haven't gotten to try it yet though, and if you can get a suitable ball making the socket from paper mache like Shawn did would most likely be better under most circumstances. Just thought I'd share anyway.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this is going to be a rather small puppet, so flex conduit would probably be overkill for me. My first model will be a small bat-like creature, only around 8 inches tall, with the only articulation being the simple bend and twist in the head. The brake cable should be enough for that, but like I said above I'm taking note of all the materials mentioned. It might come in handy, and I also enjoy seeing the things people can make out of everyday objects. :D

In that case try memory foam. I saw a video on youtube where a girl made some really funky cat ears out of that stuff.  Anyhow, good luck.

Well I got my cable today, and I think it will do for now. It doesn't twist very well, but that may be because of its length. At 48" it has plenty of room to twist in on itself before affecting the other end, and when it does it usually just spins completely around in a very quick motion. I don't need much more than 24" most likely, so that would probably help. It's also a cheap cable and may be low quality, a better quality one would probably be thicker and transfer motion better. It is easy to move in and out, though, and is sufficient for my initial practice pieces.

I also thought of yet another armature method, when Russel mentioned memory foam. I don't have easy access to carvable foam, but the local Hobby Lobby has sheets of polyfoam. I could make a head and body armature from that, which would be flexible enough to be affected by the cable but strong enough to keep everything together. It would also be faster and easier than constructing a head and neck assembly from multiple parts. It would only work on very lightweight puppets though, obviously.

I hope I'm not spamming/boring everyone with these "info" posts. There's so little information out there about this kind of thing, that I wanted to document what I'm finding as I go, because it might be useful to others later. I like to read such trial and error results, I hope others can find mine useful as well.

I hope I'm not spamming/boring everyone with these "info" posts. There's so little information out there about this kind of thing, that I wanted to document what I'm finding as I go, because it might be useful to others later. I like to read such trial and error results, I hope others can find mine useful as well. Smiley

I agree that this can help others and Thank You for sharing your finds. I hope you will take pictures as you build. I'm more of a visual person. Sounds like you have a plan to get you started.


Billy D.

I'm not bored! This is all new to me, and I am fascinated by how it might expand my puppetry technique. In the words of Oliver Twist, "Please, Sir, I want some more."

I agree and Thank You for sharing your finds. I hope you will take pictures as you build. I'm more of a visual person. Sounds like you have a plan to get you started.


Billy D.

I will. I don't have anything worth taking pictures of at this point, and up until now I was thinking that I might wait until my second project to take pictures, since in the prototype phase I tend to redo things a lot. But I think I will take pictures of my prototyping after all. Later this evening I'm going to work on a prototype armature with the materials I have, and I'll take pictures of that. I don't have a spring suitable for a jaw though, so it will only feature head articulation.

One warning I will give at the start for anyone who wants to try this, is get a cable cutter! All the cables I've seen for sale were at least 48", which is a good foot longer than a shoulder puppet would need, even if the puppeteer is very tall, and restricts the twisting motion. Some are sold noting that you can cut them to size, but even the cheap cables are far too thick for normal wire cutter to manage. My dad has some stronger wire cutters than mine (I only have jewelry cutters, so small that even floral wire is hard on them) but I don't think even those will work on this cable.

Please do continue to post.  You are not spamming at all.   That is what this forum is all about.  I learn best by seeing or hearing the process that one has to go through.  Even prototypes are great.  While it may not be working for you, if you post it then someone else may see a variation that works that you are having a problem visualizing.

Well I reassembled the bicycle dude only to find that the 3/32 plastic coated cable I had used to control the head began to  stretch from all the twisting. I had to go back to the old reliable coat hanger. It's more rigid and provides more torque. I posted some pictures of thew controls in my album gallery. And of course there's tons of stuff at my FB page. Maya be sure to post some pics of that bat creature you're working on. I'm curious to see how that turns out.

I really like that I can see all the details of your mechanics. It is such a cool set up.  One question I have is in regards to the front trigger seen in the close up.  I can follow it up to the head but can not tell for sure if you are pulling the back of the head down or the front of the head.  I assume spring action brings it back to neutral.  I think you might have mentioned the spring already... sorry I get lost in all the post some times.

Shawn I used elastic as a "spring" at the back of the head. And black braided fishing line running down to the trigger that pulls the head down.  I decided to use epoxy putty to hold the trigger in place. It's a crude setup. But, it works!  Epoxy putty is pretty cool stuff.

Just letting you guys know, I haven't forgotten about this thread! I've been experimenting with a bunch of different techniques, seeing what works and what doesn't. It's also been terribly hot here, and our air conditioner quit yesterday (we got it fixed though) so that's slowed me down. I will share some of what I've learned so far, though:

• I understand now why the shoulder puppets I've seen mostly have fur around their necks: it's very hard to keep the fabric from interfering with the joint, so it's easier to just have no fabric there. I don't know yet how I'm going to get around that, I really don't want "stuff" on the neck but I'm not sure how to hide the mechanism otherwise. I guess I could put a collar or necklace kind of thing there.
• Bicycle brake cables don't really work that well, they're stiff and don't twist much. Flexible airplane push rods work great, and they're not expensive. I got Du-Bro flexible push rods from a local hobby store. Semi-flex would probably work too. Rigid rods might work for rod puppets.
• I've tried various means of making a joint, and it seems that using a pre-made sphere to make a ball joint would be the best choice. I came pretty close with a weird looking clay ball and stud thing (which I will provide a picture of later) but a true ball joint would probably offer more control and less floppiness.
• A good way to make a plush-type head without having stuffing get in the way of the joint is to make a smaller version of the outer "skin" from felt and mush Crayola Model Magic Fusion into it, and anchor the cable and joint in that. This makes a rigid point for the controls without making the whole head from clay (again, all the hand-made puppets I've seen had soft bodies and rigid heads.) The end result is pretty much the same as making a puppet from foam and covering it with fabric skin, just without having to carve or cut foam. Foam would be too soft anyway.
• Model Magic and Model Magic Fusion are NOT the same thing. Fusion has a slightly different texture, sticks to other objects, and doesn't split or crack when it dries. The regular kind splits and doesn't stick to anything.

So now what I'm working on is the neck joint. I know it's possible to have fabric in that area, I saw a couple of hand-made puppets that had rigid heads but fabric necks, and one commercial puppet that was entirely fabric. It's possible that my current pattern simply doesn't have enough space in the neck area of the fabric, but it looks more like the fabric itself is interfering. I would buy the commercial puppet I mentioned and see how its mechanics work, but it's $40 and I can't really justify that right now, especially if I was going to take it apart.

Edited to add: It just occurred to me that a way to deal with the joint issue might be to make the head and neck "skin" separate, but lying close to the pieces of the joint. Basically making a fabric covered joint. The split would be visible, but the mechanism wouldn't be and there wouldn't be a need for a lot of bunched up fabric.

I'm finally making progress on my puppet, after looking at pics and videos of similar puppets. I put a couple of pics in my gallery, though they don't really look like anything at the moment. I made a ball joint similar to the one Shawn made in his video, though I used a large wooden bead super glued to a wire instead of a wood man. The cable is a 36" Du-bro flexible airplane pushrod, which cost about $4.60 at the hobby store. The head has a solid core made from felt and Model Magic Fusion. The fabric for the head and body are separate pieces, so there will be a lot of loose fabric for the movement. It moves quite nicely.

I am soooo syced that you used my method and adapted it!  You made my day.