Puppets and Stuff
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
Avenue Q puppet rentals  (Read 7076 times)
Na
« on: August 30, 2011, 01:51:41 am »

Just came across this website and wondered what other people would think of it:
http://puppetrentals.com/puppetrentals.com/welcome.html

It's kind of a grey area: it's clear they're trying to avoid copyright issues, and yet also clear that they're trading on the known characters. There's no info on the page as to whether or not they're licensed in any way...

I've not seen anyone else offer rental Avenue Q puppets, and I'd add the site to my article on Avenue Q replicas (on www.schoolofpuppetry.com.au) if it was legit. Anyone know anything about it?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 05:30:22 pm by Na »
Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2011, 08:25:32 am »

Never heard of it. Since Avenue Q has now been released for use by others I think maybe this would be fine. If you compare the puppets to the originals you can see that they are not actually duplicates of the original characters. I don't see that this is any different then what Swazzel is doing renting Audry to people doing "Little Shop of Horrors".

No one thinks anything of all the Costume Rental houses that rent costumes to do shows. In fact one of them I work with here in Kansas City has show packages that never get rented to the general public but only to theaters doing the show. They even have their own version of Disneys "Bueaty and The Beast" and it is all up front and legit. Smiley

I think it is a great idea since there seems to be a whole bunch of theaters wanting to do this that just won't have the resources to build or purchase puppets for the production.

P.S. I emailed Russ to see if he had any thoughts on this. Maybe hell join and chime in or email me back with a comment.
Billy D. Fuller
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2011, 09:27:57 am »

I found this place that rents Avenue Puppets as well

http://www.mtishowspace.com/photo-albums/317932/avenue-q-puppets-to-rent-from-mti

I didn't realize that Rick Lyon built the puppets for Avenue Q production.

http://lyonpuppets.com
Na
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2011, 09:45:43 am »

MTI is the company that licences the show - at least it is here. I would assume that it's ok for them to have the puppets available to rent, since they would be the ones licensing the music/script anyway. They would more than likely also licence the puppet designs - as they have done here for a couple of amateur shows. (Adelaide Puppets may know, she made some for a local show)

I agree that it doesn't seem to be a bad thing, since it's not replicating the original designs; and yet it's one of those things that if you don't know about the legalities, you'd assume it's ok to do it. (A lot of people on Yahoo Answers for instance wouldn't know the difference between "looks like Avenue Q" and "replicates Avenue Q")

It just raised some questions for me since I knew that the website wasn't related to Rick Lyon, and wondered what the legalities would be.

Shawn brings up a good point which is that costume hire places would use similar designs to well-known productions. Do those places have to obtain licencing?

Hope Russell responds. Not trying to get anyone in trouble or anything, I was just curious as to the greyness of rights and if it's all legit then I'm more than happy to add him to my article as someone who rents Avenue Q puppets; I get about a hundred hits a day to my site for that article alone and I know it's a popular question for theatre people.
kyledixondesigns
No Avatar
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2011, 10:41:00 am »

This is all very interesting.  In my opinion, it looks legit, at least on the surface, because they aren't total duplicates of the originals.  You're right with the costuming companies as well. Here in New York, you can even rent an entire original Broadway set of costumes or set for your production.  Who owns them all just depends on the designers' initial contracts with the producers, etc.

Copyright in the art world is a very slippery slope.  In theatre, it is very difficult to copyright your design since art is such an abstract concept.  As they say, "there are no original ideas," so who is to say two people can't independently come up with two very similar concepts?  Now, is that always the case?  I certainly don't think so.  People copy because that's the easy way out.  Then they change a little here and there so they don't get in trouble. 

And then once you cross an ocean, it's even messier.  There have been complete copies of Broadway productions overseas...scenery, costumes, lights, choreography, blocking, etc... that have no offiliation with the original licensing, but since it's in a different country, there's not much we can do over here.

Whew--I'm off my soap box for the moment.  As a designer, I get touchy when it comes to this topic!
kyledixondesigns
No Avatar
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2011, 10:44:57 am »

I feel like I need to add that the cases of people copying shows overseas are rare and few and far between.  There ARE legit, offical licensed versions of current Broadway shows running all over the world.  Don't think that just because your production of "X" musical, that looks just like the Broadway version is a fake.  Chances are, it the real deal!
Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2011, 10:54:50 am »

Costume rental places don't have to obtain licensing for such packages as a rule.  What they can not do is say rent or sales copyrighted characters or designs. In other words if they built a duplicate of a certain mouse we all know and called it Mickey they would be in big trouble but they can and do rent out mouse costumes. Smiley  Now that is a bit of a grey area but they all do it. Remember though that scripts for theater shows are a whole different ball game as a rule.  The characters themselves are not owned by the puppeteers that made the original puppets for Avenue Q.

Over at the MTI site they have a forum and this thread actually has a reply by one of the MTI personal and they don't mention anything about not being able to use another persons puppets for the show. I would think they would have said something about the other puppet builders that mentioned in that post that they could supply or build puppets.
Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2011, 11:02:09 am »

Hmm.... MTI also has Audry II puppets for rent. http://www.mtishows.com/content.asp?id=6_3_0_5
Animal31
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2011, 11:17:15 am »

Shawn,

You are correct regarding the "mouse" situation. We rented a handful of costumes years ago for a benefit, and were told we could only advertise an appearance by "The World's favorite Purple Dinosaur". It didn't matter much, everyone knew who was going to be there...
adelaide puppets
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2011, 01:30:01 am »

I believe that the following place hires or previously hired out Ave Q puppets in Australia and Asia...so I don't know if this is any help to you
http://www.powerarts.com.au.
They used to be called Arts Asia Pacific so I am not sure why the name change and I am in no way recommending the company, only because I know nothing about them..
We previously made some Ave Q puppets for Matt Byrne Media who had the license to put on the show and make the puppets.
Na
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2011, 01:33:06 am »

And then once you cross an ocean, it's even messier.  There have been complete copies of Broadway productions overseas...scenery, costumes, lights, choreography, blocking, etc... that have no offiliation with the original licensing, but since it's in a different country, there's not much we can do over here.


In Australia it may be slightly different. We have a large population, but a very small theatre market: what this means is that if you're in a large city, and most here are, you will have very quick saturation of your target audience. Ie. Mamma Mia will have been seen by the majority of theatre-goers no matter which capital city you perform in.

This has a knock-on effect in that it raises interest in local amateur performances of the same show; but it also means that you'll find it difficult to perform something amateur-wise that rips off from professional productions. It would be very easy to notice: and it is. Local amateur groups get caught out all the time using unlicenced music/scripts. People here from the relevant organisations do check these things out.

I think though that most local amateur groups here - the established ones - are more likely to pay royalties, not just because they can afford them, but because they respect the artists. Unfortunately, where I think it goes haywire is in the local independent/fringe (what you Americans would consider off-Broadway) groups are somewhat less respectful. But then, they tend to produce things that no one has heard of, and are not likely to be caught out copying Mamma Mia but rather some indie band's latest song.

Sadly, I know of one specific case where our national opera company (basically the only professional opera company in Oz) completely ripped off a well-known movie. See the blog/video I posted last year on my site:
http://www.puppetsinmelbourne.com.au/blog.php/2010/08/30/pirated-pirates

Despite being easily noticeable as ripping off something, they don't seem to have suffered any repurcussions. Maybe they got permission, but I think it's poor form for an opera company to trade on this.

I'll also note that your Broadway productions are pretty much what our Australian theatre audience will see at any given time. Getting them to - even an Australian well-known - original Oz works is near impossible. The only thing that is Australian about the show is the cast; because local producers are required to use everything that overseas designers created, from choreography to lighting design. I doubt that major producers would risk losing rights to a money-making show (the only ones that make any money are Broadway imports); so any breaches of copyright are more than likely going to come from amateurs.

[/soap box]
Na
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2011, 01:35:52 am »

I believe that the following place hires or previously hired out Ave Q puppets in Australia and Asia...so I don't know if this is any help to you
http://www.powerarts.com.au.
They used to be called Arts Asia Pacific so I am not sure why the name change and I am in no way recommending the company, only because I know nothing about them..
We previously made some Ave Q puppets for Matt Byrne Media who had the license to put on the show and make the puppets.


Arts Asia Pacific is the producer of the professional show in Australia. They don't have anything to do with licencing as far as I know - that would have been MTI (at least MTI has been involved in other overseas licencing, so I assume would have it for here too).

I suspect AAP would be hiring out the official Rick Lyon-made puppets for a high price, and only for corporate events. I remember seeing something similar a while back on the Aus. Avenue Q website (which seems to no longer work...). Surprisingly, lots of local well-known productions do this; Cirque du Soleil when they're in town can be hired for corporate functions, etc.
Na
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2011, 01:40:13 am »

I feel like I need to add that the cases of people copying shows overseas are rare and few and far between.  There ARE legit, offical licensed versions of current Broadway shows running all over the world.  Don't think that just because your production of "X" musical, that looks just like the Broadway version is a fake.  Chances are, it the real deal!

This is true to a certain extent. Any professionally-produced import of a show is likely to follow certain guidelines as to what they're allowed to do/not allowed to do with the licenced material. Good example is Samuel Beckett's work, which the family trust guards with its life and ensures that everything is done to the T. They've shut down shows around the world for simple things, like changing the gender of a character.

Broadway and West End musicals are not allowed to be changed at all, except for certain 'insert here' jokes which are designed to be about local/current events. Other than a locally-hired cast, nothing else can be changed. So yes, if it looks like the original, more than likely it's because of licensing.

But this doesn't necessarily translate to amateur groups who don't know/care/afford licencing or other responsibilities; nor does it prevent small independent professional companies from doing the wrong thing.
Na
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2011, 01:48:00 am »

Costume rental places don't have to obtain licensing for such packages as a rule.  What they can not do is say rent or sales copyrighted characters or designs. In other words if they built a duplicate of a certain mouse we all know and called it Mickey they would be in big trouble but they can and do rent out mouse costumes. Smiley  Now that is a bit of a grey area but they all do it.


So technically I could build an exact replica of Mickey Mouse's costume, and just call it "mouse costume" and it'd be ok? Or you mean they're ignoring copyrights hoping not to get caught? Not sure where that grey starts...

Quote
Remember though that scripts for theater shows are a whole different ball game as a rule.  The characters themselves are not owned by the puppeteers that made the original puppets for Avenue Q.


No, but presumably a puppet maker might have rights, not over the characters, but over the character designs. Which is why I wondered if Russell's work comes close to infringement.

Quote
Over at the MTI site they have a forum and this thread actually has a reply by one of the MTI personal and they don't mention anything about not being able to use another persons puppets for the show. I would think they would have said something about the other puppet builders that mentioned in that post that they could supply or build puppets.


I agree that you probably wouldn't have to use specific characters/designs for the puppets, nor using Rick Lyon's work: that'd be exorbitant and would defeat the purpose of licencing the show. The problem for me is that most people wouldn't think about whether or not they'd need permission to make replicas for amateur shows (partly because it would be tied into getting permission to use the script/music) and that some random Googler who doesn't know about rights for the show may just wander over to Russell's site and assume that anyone can make a replica.

To paraphrase from the source: there's a fine, fine line between supplying puppets for a licenced show; and ignoring or being ignorant of, licencing responsibilities.
Na
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2011, 01:49:03 am »

Hmm.... MTI also has Audry II puppets for rent. http://www.mtishows.com/content.asp?id=6_3_0_5


MTI also licences the script/music for Little Shop of Horrors. I would guess that again, the puppets come as a package deal in terms of copyrights.
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up

Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines

Copyright © 2000-2013 Puppets And Stuff, All Rights Reserved

Page created in 0.332 seconds with 24 queries.

Puppets and Stuff