Hi there, I’m currently writing a web series and the missus and myself have been working on this puppet to be one of the main characters.



This little guy (creatively named Red Fox) is the first time either of us have attempted anything like this and while we’re pleased with our results we’ve learnt a bit from our mistakes and I think we can do a lot better. So that being said, this puppet will be the basis of fox puppet v2.0 that we plan to make, while fixing a few things and adding others.

Here’s a quick list of things that I’m looking to fix/change/add:
- Fix the mouth so the black isn’t showing when closed.
- Make the eyes more prominent
- Change some of the fabric colours (specifically ears and paws) to try and make him more fox-like and less cat-like
- Change his paws to look more like paws and less like stumps
- Add legs and a tail
- Add simple animatronics to control his ears

If you have any comments/suggestions about the above points I would love to hear and it would be greatly appreciated. I’ll be posting updates as we progress with the new puppet.

Thanks.

Not bad for a first go. Did you use a pattern you found or just "make it up"?

1) What can help on the mouth is making sure that your fabric, fur in this case, wraps around and into the mouth. It may also be possible that your mouth plate does not have enough gap in the hinge. Do you feel like maybe the mouth does not close all the way? That would be an indication that you need to add a bit more space or gap on the hinge. People often forget to take into consideration the thickness of fabric used on the inside of the mouth or they add in a tongue or other mouth detail in fabric and the same can happen. 

2) Well bigger eyes would do that but you might want to keep the small beady eyed look. In that case it may help to shave down the fur around the eyes.  If you do this you might want to find other places do do this. In fact you may want to end up doing this to the entire snot of the puppet. Often animals have different lengths of hair. don't be afraid to incorporate that into your puppet.

3-4) Colors don't bother me that much. It may be how they are inserted though.  For example on the ears you may want the red to be more prominent then the white and wrap around some. To do this you cut the red larger then the white piece then when you sew them together you "ease" or gather the red fur fabric in to fit the smaller white fur. I can give more detail on that if you need it.  For the paws it may be simply that you need to make the backs of them the red but the palms then the white. All that being said it may be cool to introduce another color into the mix and use it. Don't rule out using a different fabric other then fur also. The palms of the hands could be made of polar fleece. This might actually help to keep them from looking like stumps.

5) A tail I would add but do you really need legs? How are you going to be using him? Normally you never see the legs of a puppet unless it is for a special shot and then more then likely they are a separate puppet/prop that is just the legs. For your tail you could add some wire to help hold it up but depending on structure of your body that may not work. You might find running a piece of fishing line for tip of tail to the top of his head will be the best option if you want it to always stick up. If not you can put a rod on the end of the tail to manipulate it.  I think this last option gives you the biggest bang for your buck. It will give your tail a personality of it's own.

6) Ok if you mean simple animatronics as sticking two of your fingers up in his ears and wiggling them the I would say yes. Try not to over complicate things. I don't think this guy needs animatronics and when you move into that you need a good solid skull or inner structure to make them work. Maybe that could be on fox puppet v3.0

looks good dude and for a first puppet awesome!! I found that I love my first puppet for all his flaws and the mistakes I made with him I'd never make him any better, in fact I did try but it turned out worse and I now use the second one as an extra lol.

oh and make sure you link us your webseries!

[is]

Most excellent. Have been looking for a fox puppet pattern meself; with my C16th Foxe monicker, that's a given.

Eyes: You might want to try a more naturalistic looking amber glass bead eye ... then you'll get that sly glint in the right light. There's an excellent thread on the Fora called "Pretty Eyes" which is very inspirational.

Ears:  The inner part of the ears would look better in a slightly darker reddish/brown colour. Do a Google search for photos of the real deal and you'll see what I mean.

Like Shawn, I agree; a tail is a must.

Regards,
Dorian

I have seen long tails held up by elastic thread a few inches from body so that it wiggled with the puppet movements, may not be as controlable as a rod manipulated tail.  Rod tails are fun, the tail can be disobedient and he can talk to it like it is another puppet, it can have it's own personality.

Thanks for all your replies and feedback it’s much appreciated.

Shawn:

Thanks for taking the time to make an extensive reply. Yes we made it from scratch, I did a lot of the interior work (foam skull etc.), my fiancé did all the sewing and we worked together on the designing the fabric pattern.

I agree with everything you said about the mouth. Particularly wrapping the fur around and the spacing of the hinge to a small degree. Differing lengths of hair is also noted, I’ll keep it in mind.

…when you sew them together you "ease" or gather the red fur fabric in to fit the smaller white fur. I can give more detail on that if you need it.

I might have to call you on that. I’ll have a chat with the fiancé first she may already know what you mean. And I should elaborate what I meant when I spoke about changing colours. I’ve been considering changing the red on the back of the ears to black to better reflect the look of an actual fox and to a lesser extent considering turning the paws to black as well for the same reason. A lot of first reactions I got of the puppet is that it was a cat and not a fox and I’m just trying ideas to make it immediately apparent visually that it’s indeed a fox and not another domestic animal. A different type of fabric for the paws is a great idea and one I’ll definitely try.

I would really like to have legs for scenes of him while sitting on a lounge. A separate puppet makes sense, but I’m interested in how you use the word ‘prop’. Are you talking about attachable legs for example? I’m trying to figure out in my head how that works.

Upon observing my dog, I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of the emotion comes the tail and the ears. Thus my logic behind a tail (with control) and animatronics for the ears. The ears are more important to me as I think they A) add more depth to the character (in context with the story), and B) will more likely get more screen time than the tail. I know it sounds like I’m biting off more than I can chew, but I’d rather take the time to try and make the ears work and fail, than to not try at all. I’m not looking to get full range of movement, just any basic movement to help add emotion to the character.

Loki:

Thanks for your kind words. A first time doing something is always a proud moment. I love Red as he is but I feel that there is room for improvement and I’ve taken shortcuts in video projects before and it’s never as good as spending a bit more time doing the proper preparations.

When the time comes I will surely be sharing the series with everyone, but for the moment I can’t share too much just yet.

Dorian:

Thanks for pointing us towards that thread, it’s very… eye opening. Sorry, bad joke I couldn’t help myself. But yes, it is a good read.

I do have an amber glass bead on him at the moment but because they’re transparent, they bend into the red fur backing.



I thought of painting the back of the eyes white, much like the tread you referenced, but not sure how much that would help.

Thanks for your opinion on the ears, I’m still experimenting and I’m trying to balance the line between realism and stylized but I’ll keep it in mind.

Snail:

I think I’d prefer the control of a rod-controlled tail. Being part of a video It would be better to have more control than it being convenient. And I do have a few gags for his tail, although maybe not to the extent you’re talking.

I think perhaps part of the reason folks think cat when they see him is the width of his muzzle. Is there any way you can narrow that and perhaps make the end a bit more pointed? If not then try increasing the width and size of the head maybe. Google "fox puppet images" the pictures illustrate what I am trying to get at.

I think movement in the ears is ok, I was just trying to get you away from the idea of animatronics. That being said have a look at this thread. http://puppetsandstuff.com/community/index.php/topic,7697.0.html  Might give you some ideas and inspiration. Also have a look at this thread. http://puppetsandstuff.com/community/index.php/topic,5868.0.html  This puppets fingers where movable and the same concept could be used on the foxes ears.

When I used the word prop, I really meant that they where separate legs that where used to do cut in scenes (think that is the right terminology).  So you have a shot of just legs walking and then you go to a shot of the puppet from waist up.  From your description of what you want to do I think you need to attach them. Don't rule out having more then one puppet though. Once you get your design down and if you have made patterns for everything you may want one puppet for most shots without legs and then another with the legs for the lounge shots. For example it may be that in the shot it is easier to have a puppet with access from the back of him then form below i.e. between the legs and look better for the shot.

You could add a layer under the eyes of black thin foam sheet or felt that was slightly larger than the eye diameter to give the eye an "outline" of thin black that would make it stand out and raise it more.  Sometimes I add rounded points on the inside and outside points to mimmick the tear duct type shape too.  You could try it with a piece of black construction paper to see what it looks like and if it would make the eyes stand out more for you.

Shawn, I think you were looking for the term "cutaway". I'd like to make two puppets if it's convenient. I've been documenting everything as I go so I should hopefully be able to replicate a puppet if we do decide on that course of action. I've started work trying to make the nose more pointy, first attempt didn't go so well, back to the drawing board. Also those links are great. I was actually inspired by a thread here talking about using a bicycle brake to animate a puppet, much like the finger controls you linked to.

Thanks Snail, I've got a lot of things ahead of me now before I get to new eyes, but I'll keep it all in mind.

Unfortunately I don't think I'll get much done before the long weekend, but after that I'm hoping to have a few things to come back with.

Eiii great fox!!