Do you think you might be able to get some nice movement in between two silk sheets? Spining would not be possible, of course, but maybe some little stuff... I don't know, just an idea. And I REALLY wish there was a way to increase the speed of "broiling down ideas"...

I'm not sure what you mean - the puppet is operated directly from behind, so the only way to insert it between two sheets is to work from below. And that's not how I want the puppet to be operated.

... In other news, I have found a local supplier (in the same state even!) of plastic sheets. I received the order yesterday, and they're very cheap (a few bucks per sheet, and they're like, 1m long X 50cm wide), thin but flexible, and come in a range of colours (white, black, opaque colours and transparents). I've been playing with a small cut off piece all day and am really happy with it. I'll be able to start making these new puppets very soon!

Cool! They will be great as always, I am sure.
 Sorry, I thought all shadow puppets were operated from below. I was wondering how you did it... So it does make more sense. And of course, the idea with 2 sheets would never work.

Cool! They will be great as always, I am sure.
 Sorry, I thought all shadow puppets were operated from below. I was wondering how you did it... So it does make more sense. And of course, the idea with 2 sheets would never work.

Most Asian ones are worked from below, and I think some of the European traditions do too. However, I'm using a modern method, which means the puppets are attached to rods at 90 degree angles to the body (hold your arms out in front of you like you're a zombie, that's basically the best way to imagine it).

This makes the rods/arms less visible, as well as giving more control over the puppet. However it does make the use of scenery slightly more tricky; having the puppet between two objects might be possible, but I've never thought about it before. The only times I've seen this same rod method used before, I've not seen background scenery used in conjunction with it, so I'm not even sure how to do it.

Maybe with a frame and strings?

Maybe with a frame and strings?

You mean a backdrop? That could be done if I had something to fly backdrops with, like a booth or a theatre. But again, the issue is the puppeteer - I'm not sure if they'd be seen or not because of the lighting. If I had the opportunity and time, I'm sure I could think of a solution, but right now I don't have either.

Na,
For "back drops" we always used a projector. In fact the projector itself was the light source. It was actually an overhead projector. I am sure you've seen these used before. The backdrops where created via computer and printed on clear sheets you could get for them. Worked out pretty well although the colors where not always as vibrant as I would have liked. I am sure that a person could actually paint the backgrounds on the acetate much like the old cartoons where made and the colors would be better.

Na,
For "back drops" we always used a projector. In fact the projector itself was the light source. It was actually an overhead projector. I am sure you've seen these used before. The backdrops where created via computer and printed on clear sheets you could get for them. Worked out pretty well although the colors where not always as vibrant as I would have liked. I am sure that a person could actually paint the backgrounds on the acetate much like the old cartoons where made and the colors would be better.

Ah good point. I always forget about projectors. You could not only use an overhead, but also a digital projector and hook up a computer.

Never reply to puppet forums at 4.20am. Other, more knowledgeable people, will have good answers

I just thought I'd update this thread:

I've purchased some plastic sheets and have made several different sizes of the puppet. Once again the head-floppiness is back to haunt me. I've found that my ideal size - 67.5cm - has issues floppiness-wise. In order to counter this, I've added a layer of plastic the same size and shape of the head, minus the hole cut out. While this prevents floppiness, it adds a considerable amount of extra weight; the puppet is heavy, but not so much that it's a problem. It's certainly noticeable though.

The other issue is that there is no glue that will solder the two pieces of plastic together, which means I've either got a nasty shadow when the pieces flop away from each other, or I've got to find some method of weaving them together. Either way, I'm not happy with it.

Leaving me with the continued issue of not being happy with 60cm as it's too small (adding even 3cm to the size causes floppiness). I prefer the weighting of the smaller size, but the bigger size is just so much better visibility-wise. I did a rough calculation: a 60cm tall shadow puppet may be seen at a max. of 16 rows of people. Let's say 10 seats p/row = roughly 160 people will see it. I don't think that's enough...

I think now I need to do some market research to find out if people/puppeteers will buy a 60cm shadow puppet.

Have you tried spray adhesive?  I don't know it may muddy the transparency but thought I would suggest it. There has to be something out there that would work just not sure what it would be. They make window decals that you can stick on the window but then they peel off real easy and can be replied. If we could figure out what they use maybe that would work.

Spray adhesive won't work. This particular type of plastic is designed specifically so that glues won't work at all. Superglue, even hot glue which I've read is the only glue which works for this plastic... Nothing sticks, from Mod Podge to wood glue to PVA (Elmer's) to... well, you name it.

Anyway, I found some clear plastic from a document folder that is thinner (therefore lighter) and cut it to cover the hole. It lessens the overall weight of the puppet, and can be attached to the back of the head where the brad is for the attachment of the body/at the top where the rod attachment goes. My only problem is that the plastic dirties up very easily, but am now checking my supplier to see if they have a clear plastic in a thinner guage.

Window decals is an interesting idea, especially as I'm a bit wary about how to/if I should attach the sides of the clear plastic to the head somehow. A decal would solve that problem, as well as another idea I'm working on.... Wonder how I could find those...?  Thanks Shawn!

I wonder if you could laminate it?  I have a laminating machine for home use and the sheets are quite a bit thicker than the sheeting used on larger machines like at schools.  I don't know if you have anything like this available to you or not.  Just a thought.

No, lamination is what I was doing before. The whole idea of this is to avoid lamination.

Besides, the issue is only a problem if I size it bigger than 60cm tall. That size is smaller than I want, but probably reasonable enough for it to be marketable. If I can't find a suitable solution then I'll simply use the smaller size.

In sum: thinking of how to do the puppet at the size I want.... I've added a layer of clear plastic to the back of the head. This can be attached at top and bottom where other joints/attachments are already in place. However, the sides of this clear plastic flop away from the head plastic, so side attachments are necessary and/or some other method of attachment.

Lamination is out. Decals sound interesting but initial investigation turns up very little info, and leaves me with a 'sticker' which then potentially sticks to the screen. Filling in the hole is not what I want to do, and playing with white contact on a clear plastic also leaves the problem of durability. I have considered 'weaving' the two pieces of plastic together with some strong cotton, but I'm not happy with that either.

My last solution is the following: using 2 extra brads on either side of the head. I initially tossed this idea out because I thought it might look ugly, but I've photoshopped some extra brads onto a previous pic; one pic has the silver coloured brads I'm using now, the other with two extra white brads (I thought it might blend in a little more). I haven't physically tried this yet, but if I do I hope it will solve the problem for good.

What do you guys think?

Not content with being hypothetical I went ahead and added the brads to my real puppet; this is 67.5 cm, with the clear plastic behind the head. Note in the second image you can actually make out a little of the clear plastic due to the flash of the camera. Rods are temporarily attached with masking tape.

I think the brads look fine.  Do they show on screen? If not great, if so does it really detract from the look?  I doubt it.  Have you tried performing to see if the look is satisfactory?

Anyway all said and done, I think the brads are a good solution.