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Do you feel you have to be a ventriloquist to be a puppeteer?  (Read 862 times)
Wheels47130
« on: August 01, 2012, 10:38:43 pm »

It's more for those out there that are lone puppeteers. With a group you can do a stage and several others to interact with. So, if it's a solo show, do you need to be a ventriloquist? I would love to hear from other soloest how they perform. Please let me know.

Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2012, 05:20:01 am »

I used to preform solo but was and am not a ventriloquist. I grew up in the era of Wayland and Madame and he was not a ventriloquist so I didn't find it odd to preform with a puppet while my lips moved. Smiley
Na
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 05:26:42 am »

No: there are plenty of solo performers who don't do ventriloquism. For instance, Ronnie Burkett who does marionettes, and Richard Bradshaw who does shadow puppetry. Both do their own vocals, but no ventriloquism.
Lizzies Lair
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 05:31:09 am »

Hey Wheels, I know the others are right and there are endless forms of puppetry, but in my mind, I think I'll always be a crappy performer because I can't master ventriloquism and consequently feel very limited. Na shared a link a few months ago of an Australian puppeteer who does solo work with his lips moving and watching him, I thought he was nothing short of professional and hugely entertaining, but when I try it, I think it's just crap  Cry.

Shawn, do you have any footage of your solo work in action? I'd love to see it.
Buppetpusker
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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2012, 07:02:50 am »

Nope, though I'd love to master some vent skills in future! Performance is easily capable without vent, turn the tables and look at what Rod Hull did with Emu!
Shawn Sorrell
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2012, 03:25:52 pm »

Shawn, do you have any footage of your solo work in action? I'd love to see it.

None of performing with hand in mouth puppets.  There is some footage of when I was with La Famille Marionettes. I'll see if I can dig some of those up. Should be some of when I was with StoneLion but have no idea where that has gotten to.
Wheels47130
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2012, 08:34:15 pm »

Thanks, I looked up and watched Hull & Emu. That guy s awesome.
Chris Arveson
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2012, 11:25:40 pm »

I'm not a ventriloquist, but I have performed with my gums flapping for all the world to see. I think that if you engage well with the puppet, the audience isn't going to care a whole lot. People tend to zone in on the puppet and ignore the silly human nearby, at least that's been my experience.
Clewer Puppets
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2012, 12:22:00 am »

I'd just like to back up what Chris & some others have said. I have been doing puppetry for 22 years-I am not a ventriloquist either. However, I interact hugely with my puppets. quite often my husband and I interact together with our puppets-lips moving! I had an interview with Jim Henson some years back which we recorded off the television. He was sitting behind the cameras at the back of the studio with Kermit on his hand and he just started talking. The interviewer asked him some comment about not being a ventriloquist. Jim's comment was that the puppet (frog) was infinitely more interesting that the puppeteer, and people are naturally drawn to the puppet. Even though I don't throw my voice, I have a dear old lady friend who always introduces me as a great ventriloquist! Go figure!

Hey Lizzie-don't worry too much (you said you like like crap when you do it). Believe me, it takes plenty of practice in front of a mirror. After a while, you find that you aren't looking at yourself either, but your eyes are drawn to the puppet-which is something that I discovered when a friend took some videos of me in action many years ago. I was watching my own puppets! When done well, it doesn't really matter.A big part of it is really believing that creation on your arm is a real character-interact with them as though they are alive & human.
Debra C.
Chris Arveson
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 06:01:28 am »

I haven't had a chance to finish watching it yet, but on Netflix there is a documentary on Kevin Clash called "Being Elmo." There are brief scenes of him going into groups of schoolkids, and the delight on their faces is absolutely wonderful. Now, I'm sure Mr. Clash is a great person, but I doubt the kids were glad to see him, they only had eyes for the fuzzy red guy on his arm. Clash is Elmo, and Elmo is Clash; he has such a connection with "Elmo" that it wouldn't make any difference if he had to stand on his head to do Elmo, the kids would be zoned in on the puppet.

Certainly in this situation, the kids already have their own connection to Elmo. But that's because Elmo is a character so well done, that they can identify with and love him. If we connect to our characters, and our characters are done well enough, audiences won't care if our lips move. They will see us when we want them to see us, but mostly the will be watching the puppet to see what it will say next.

People are willing to suspend reality when there is enough reason. Our job as puppeteers is to provide enough reason for reality to be suspended.
Gabriel G
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 12:35:58 pm »

I've seen plenty of solo performers who were not ventriloquists and put on a full shows for libraries and events. It's pretty common in that segment. I've also seen other solo performers who mix up songs and out front stuff with monologues. The Kevin Clash example is a great one though!
ViciousCritic
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2012, 04:10:07 pm »

I only use puppets in video, which obviously doesn't require ventriloquism, but I still consider myself a puppeteer. I did however have a ventriloquist dummy as a child and was determined to be able to do it. I never mastered it, so now I just hide off camera.
Wheels47130
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2012, 09:21:18 pm »

My best friend when I was a kid was my Vent doll. I'll bet my grandma made him 100 outfits Smiley I'm starting to do video now with them.
Lizzies Lair
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 05:28:51 am »

Perhaps you've pinpointed my (and maybe your own) innate sense of why ventriloquism seems necessary  to feel like I've succeeded as a performer. Like you Wheels, I was obsessed with Ventriloquist dolls for years as a kid and saved all my pocket money to buy what was a pretty poor Charlie McCarthy knock off. I still have him although he doesn't get much of a work out these days. I think even as a puppet builder now I'm subconsciously building puppets I intend to use as vent figures rather than moveable, performing puppets.

I've been re-watching entire series of Muppets, Fraggles (instant lobotomy!!!  icon_lol), Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, Thunderbirds etc to reacquaint myself with the type of puppetry I think I initially feel in love with, in an attempt to combat this stupid mind set. So far to no avail!  Wink I'd love to see any discoveries you've made of successful solo performers if you're happy to share.
LJ
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2012, 07:35:29 am »

Let me just chime in here - I am a performing ventriloquist but I teach teachers how to use puppets in their classroom and I always tell them. "You don't have to be a ventriloquist but you do have to have a different voice and have realistic movement with your puppet.  And if a child asks you why you are talking when the puppet talks just tell them that the puppet needs a little bit of help."  My feeling is that the only reason they are asking is that they are trying to figure out whether it is ok to pretend that the puppet is real - every child needs to be able to access the part of their brain that requires play and they are basically asking permission to play. As long as you never call yourself a ventriloquist you have nothing to worry about. BUT do remember the character development - that is why Wayland and Madame were so successful!
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