Ok, so this far I have made my own eyes, attached them last and focused pupils (which I have attached separately) absolutely last so that I can focus them where I've wanted.
I like some of the eyes I see in craft stores (others are awful, but there are some interesting ones ) but I worry about attaching them and not being able to focus them. For example some puppet builders use the ones with big locking posts (child proof?) but a lot of puppet heads are round so to mount them flush with the head would mean the eyes point outwards at a crazy angle. Do you build up the foam to make it flat, if so how do you cover it without lumps? I'd love to try making eyes on the "vampire wombat method" but am concerned about getting a good focus.
I'm guessing that when the pupil is 1/3rd of the way up the dome you can rotate the dome till they point in but if the pupils are on top...?
I quite like the look achieved when builders put a button or other eye on a plastic spoon but I have the same concern about focus...
I love the flexibility I have with the fabric and like everything about the result except they're not shiny/wet looking, any ideas, has anyone tried painting fabric for a glossy finish (I might try it myself but am very sceptical about getting a good result!)
Eyes are such an important thing for any character, I'm sure there are many ways to solve this so bring it on, how do YOU do it.
Excited to learn
SCUBA Steve

I think it can be hard to explain what you are asking in words.....one way that may help you is it involves making mock up eyes and figuring things out before you commit them.  I spend more time on eyes than most other parts of the puppets (as you said) they are the "soul" of the puppet.  I put on temporary stuff to get an idea and then once things are the way I want them I proceed to the finale puppet eyes with the materials.  I pin eyes up and glue gun things lightly to see how it works in the end. 

I know this isn't a direct answer to your questions but it will give you a guideline to what most puppet makers do when it comes to eyes/pupils. 

I hope someone will do a BlogTV workshop on focusing eyes so that you get a clear picture on what you need to be thinking about as you work on the eyes.

Daryl H

Blog Tv would of course be a great place to see what people do. I'm encouraged that you get what I mean and also that there isn't some basic "knack" that I'm missing. I get pretty good focus with the styrofoam balls by pinning the pupil on and using the pins to focus on a point. when it's right I secure it with a second pin (so it can't move) and sew it on (the ball is covered in fabric)
I think you know what I mean Daryl but some more detail for others...
I mean when I have to focus the "whole eye."
Lifting the eyes with "wedges etc" is likely to so heavily affect the character...  At present I mock things up and use hundreds of pins till it seems right. Easy enough when you can adjust the pupil but if I get nice "printed" eyes that won't be the same case. or any eye (vampire wombat polymer clay style) where the pupil is central on a dome.

Sorry, repeating myself really, thanks
Scoob

This might help:
http://bit.ly/NJ09I

It's an article on how to place eyes

I've never had problems getting the eyes to sit 'flat' against the face of the puppet, but I think there's a trick to some eye materials. Sometimes it may be easier to back the eye with the same material you're using as the skin, and then glue the backing onto the puppet.

Steve,
You saw the head tutorial I did right?   Remember how I covered the egg in papermache'? Do the same thing with a round styro ball.  Then paint them with a gloss white paint!  You can continue to do the pupil the way you are doing now or you could once you have it located with the pinning method you use, trace the pupil and then paint it on in gloss black! 

Na There's no trouble getting the eyes flat, it's the fact that the head isn't flat. Fine if your putting them on a wall but you're putting them on a ball, so the eyes look out left right. I see what you mean about backing with fabric (at first I was a bit nonplussed by the fact that you were showing me something to basic) It would work really well in conjunction with the idea Shawn is suggesting!
Shawn, very interesting idea. at first my thought process went right through to the paperclay and I couldn't see how I'd be able to pin to it! then my brain kicked in! very cool idea! I'd only need a thin enough coat to paint then fabric backing I could still sew it on! (I hate gluing eyes on now) I might even be able to get the papermache' to take over the top of the fabric making sewing easier. I could then sew through the thin lip of papermache' under neath the styro ball.
Can you tell I'm excited about the possibilities? Two creative ideas combined with my old methods, new solution! I love that I can make it myself but is there away to use a plastic eye?
Ok so the bar is set high folks! Can we get any advance on this? keep the creativity coming or a simple fix that I've been missing
Loving this site
Scoob

Unfortunately, I'm not so sure how you can make the eyes using my method work on the outside of the puppet. On my zombie puppet with that style of eyes, I have eye sockets with eye lids and can put the eyes in or pop them out whenever I want. To focus the pupils, I just move the eye around. Maybe this info will be somewhat useful.

Why not create "eye sockets" your round foam head?   Cut round hole in the foam where you want the eye and then cut the fabric on the outside a bit smaller hole. Wrap the fabric to the inside of the foam head through the hole and secure. You might need to use a bit of glue here to get the fabric attached to the inside of the head.  Now pop your plastic eyes in the eye socket and position till you like them.  If they are the eyes that have the post on the back then you could cut a piece of heavy fabric or even a scrap of foam that is larger then they eye socket  and attach it to that before you insert it into the eye.  Then you have something to glue or sew to the inside of the head once you get the position you want.  This may take some experimenting to get working right but I think it could work.  With this method you might want to do an upper and lower eyelid of fabric to help cover any gaps and finish off the eye.

Shawn I'm loving the idea of a foam "washer." Your suggestion of laminating extra fabric inside the head is intriguing too, it's making me think about a flat board mounted behind the eyes (across both sockets to keep them parallel to each otherUpper eyelid was in the design for my current project anyway, I'll have to look at some other examples of lower lids. They can make a character look so old or drugged. Old isn't so bad for my next project actually... Though these questions are not for a specific project really.
As for the fact I prefer to sew rather than glue, I've realised the "Childproof" eyes with the locking post won't be removable without breaking them anyway! That's the point isn't it, so a child can't swallow them!Of course you don't put the back on till you're happy with them... Still it's another good reason to make some on bolts, a la Vampire wombats eyes!
Thanks for your persistence with this, it really has been a pretty fertile question. Just a few posts have generated a wealth of ideas!
Scoob

Na There's no trouble getting the eyes flat, it's the fact that the head isn't flat. Fine if your putting them on a wall but you're putting them on a ball, so the eyes look out left right. I see what you mean about backing with fabric (at first I was a bit nonplussed by the fact that you were showing me something to basic) It would work really well in conjunction with the idea Shawn is suggesting!

Sorry, should have made myself clear: I do understand what you mean about using a flt backed eyes on a round head. I've tried clay eyes, half polystyrene balls, plastic spoons/etc all on round heads. I find that the backing helps, because it tends to mold to the shape of the head, as well as the flatness of the eye. Even with clay eyes I found it really hard to attach to a round head, but some strong glue and careful attachment, and the eyes are fixed securely all the way around on the head (in other words, it wasn't a big deal to get them completely flat against the head). Maybe I've figured out a subconscious knack for it :P

I do like Shawn's idea, it sounds like something I should try too. (So much to learn, so little time!)