That's good advice Shawn, I'll look into that. Thanks. I did think about the need for stability of the hand control, but at this stage I'm more interested in understanding the inner workings of the puppet part more, since I could operate it with bare cables temporarily. Once I understand part of something, I can usually figure out the rest from there.

As for sharing what I learn, you can rest assured I will if I can figure it out. My feelings are that the proprietary thing about art is the finished product, the overall look and feel, not the mechanics of "how." In Second Life, lots of people made avatars with complicated behaviors, but the hows and whys weren't common knowledge. That made it hard to get into the medium. I learned things by trial and error, and shared what I found. Now I help run a group that shares open source scripts with a large group of artists, and it's much easier for new styles of creation to be born. I like diversity. :D

Of course, I do respect other's wishes on the subject. This is just my personal way of doing things. Speaking of which, I know the maker of "Drabbits" has a patent on his cable system. I don't know all the details of patents, but I would assume I wouldn't be treading on anyone's toes by making something myself, especially since I'm not doing mass production or even commission-based hand-crafting. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks for all the info, everyone.

You would be creating your own system so I doubt you would be stepping on any patents.  Now if you got a Drabbits and reverse engineered it and then produced and sold it you would be.  

Like you, I am a supporter of "Open Source".  I know that term is commonly used in the computer realm but I extend it to puppetry.   I see no harm in sharing ideas and techniques and believe it only strengthens the puppetry world in the long run.  While I respect others wishes to keep their ideas secret I don't particularly agree with it. One reason for that is nine times out of ten you can trace their techniques or idea to something that has been around long before they copyrighted or patented it.

I thought I'd post some more findings, in case others find this useful.

You can make a tail that curls from the tip by making a jointed armature with the cable anchored at the end, and connected to each segment so that it can slide through like a pulley. Jointed toy snakes like these would make an ideal armature for side to side or up and down movements. That might require a cable softer than brake cable though. I haven't gotten any brake cabling yet so I'm not sure of its flexibility. (I also don't have any toy snakes...I used to play with them a lot when I was a kid, but I haven't seen any in years. I know this technique works because I did a mock up with straws and yarn.)

You could probably use a small, soft spring in place of a ball joint between the head and neck, at least on small and lightweight puppets. I haven't gotten to try this yet, but I got the idea from a bobblehead I saw in the store. Provided your control cable is strong enough, you should still get pretty decent movement, and the head will return to its neutral position automatically.

That's all for now, but I did have a question: I looked for ball joints online and at a local hobby store, but didn't find anything. Just very small joints far too small for a puppet, or things meant for cars (real ones, not models.) I also didn't see anything like the wooden things Shawn used in his videos to make a joint. Any suggestions?

I wish I could be of help....................... I have trouble tying my shoes LOL. Not good with wire or strings.


Billy D.

Hi,
Here is an armature that could be used to create different thing on puppets tails, ears,etc. and yes it would need to be modafided.

http://www.dollsupply.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=61&products_id=189

Here is some of my Mech. for eyes and mouth that I have built on my "Flickr" page.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41111968@N00/sets/72157602722674058/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41111968@N00/sets/72157602722672312/

Thanks Mike! That's quite helpful. Nice looking mech too. Where did you get the spring? I ordered a small spring from Amazon to experiment with, but I'm not sure what size would be best so I'm flying blind on that.

Brake cable is going to work fine depending on the weight of the head and the resistance encountered when you turn the head. Also, the length and diameter of the cable will be a factor too. I tested that method on my puppet that is attached to the bicycle. I wanted his head to turn and look up and down . I used cable for the turning movement and a string system with elastic string for the up and down motion. It's disassembled now getting ready for costuming and I didn't take pictures. I'll post some when I begin putting it back together. But, I can tell you the cable will work with turning if its a short cable. Otherwise I think you're going to get kinks. From the waist to the shoulder though...hmmm...that may work. Mine is only like 14" long and has little resistance.  It's pretty straight run too. straight up to the head with no bends.  It worked for me.

I intend to do another production in 2011 with an eight headed dragon. I plan to use flex conduit for the controls on that. Maybe that would be something you would consider depending on the size of your puppet. Or thicker diam cable? Bike brake cable is kinda small.

Thanks for the input, Russel. In another thread here, mike said that Woodbabies use flexible pushrods meant for model airplanes. I've seen Woodbabies in videos and they seem to have no trouble with both twisting and nodding motions, so if the bike cable doesn't work I'll try that. At this point I'm just experimenting with the mechanics and I really can't afford the best materials, but I'm taking notes for later. I ordered a cheap brake cable on Amazon, it should arrive in a couple of days. I'll let y'all know how things turn out, with pictures when I have some.

On a different note, another method of making a ball joint occurred to me, similar to Shawn's paper mache method. If you made a ball and socket from clay, you could make them hollow and poke holes in them to string elastic through. Then you wouldn't have to deal with keeping the pieces together as much. I haven't gotten to try it yet though, and if you can get a suitable ball making the socket from paper mache like Shawn did would most likely be better under most circumstances. Just thought I'd share anyway.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this is going to be a rather small puppet, so flex conduit would probably be overkill for me. My first model will be a small bat-like creature, only around 8 inches tall, with the only articulation being the simple bend and twist in the head. The brake cable should be enough for that, but like I said above I'm taking note of all the materials mentioned. It might come in handy, and I also enjoy seeing the things people can make out of everyday objects. :D

In that case try memory foam. I saw a video on youtube where a girl made some really funky cat ears out of that stuff.  Anyhow, good luck.

Well I got my cable today, and I think it will do for now. It doesn't twist very well, but that may be because of its length. At 48" it has plenty of room to twist in on itself before affecting the other end, and when it does it usually just spins completely around in a very quick motion. I don't need much more than 24" most likely, so that would probably help. It's also a cheap cable and may be low quality, a better quality one would probably be thicker and transfer motion better. It is easy to move in and out, though, and is sufficient for my initial practice pieces.

I also thought of yet another armature method, when Russel mentioned memory foam. I don't have easy access to carvable foam, but the local Hobby Lobby has sheets of polyfoam. I could make a head and body armature from that, which would be flexible enough to be affected by the cable but strong enough to keep everything together. It would also be faster and easier than constructing a head and neck assembly from multiple parts. It would only work on very lightweight puppets though, obviously.

I hope I'm not spamming/boring everyone with these "info" posts. There's so little information out there about this kind of thing, that I wanted to document what I'm finding as I go, because it might be useful to others later. I like to read such trial and error results, I hope others can find mine useful as well.