I have a hard time selling my patterns, and wonder if I'm pricing them too high - or if people don't want to pay for them at all. They're actually very reasonable, at about $9 USD per pattern.

Are people less willing to fork over money for a shadow puppet pattern, in comparison with a muppet pattern? (Keeping in mind that my muppet patterns sell easily at twice the price)

I bet it it more a matter of "demand".  I am sure the ratio of Muppet type puppet builders to shadow puppet builders is pretty big.   I wonder if you would have more luck selling a package or book of patterns vs the individual patterns. A Muppet type pattern is pretty generic and thus can be used for the base to a multitude of characters. Your shadow patterns are very specific characters. Let's say the average beginning shadow puppet builder is looking at creating puppets for a show. Firstly you would need to have all the specific characters they where looking for and secondly if you do the cost to buy all of them may be beyond their means.  Any time I have built a shadow show we have had between 25 to 100 puppets in the show.

I think also that it is easier for folks who build a shadow puppet to "see" the pattern. They may not feel they need a pattern. The resources I looked for when building shadow plays where silhouettes.  It was the outline I would often struggle with.  Once I could find that the actual puppet was easy for me. I have several books of silhouettes in my library.  The total cost of those would be perhaps that of 3 or 4 of your individual patterns. Each book has anywhere between 500 to 1000 silhouettes. Granted they are not all usable for anyone show. 

I think the big thing though is back to the demand thing. There are just a lot more demand for Muppet type puppets then there is for shadow puppets. You you are doing things right in this regard with the way you have been marketing thing I believe. By doing the videos and teaching people about shadow puppetry you are in essence creating a larger base of clients that might want to buy from you.

Shawn brought up some good points. I think most people don't know enough about shadow puppetry to buy one. They would rather invest in Muppet type puppet patterns since that is what most have grown up with. I think you are very talented in this area and your skills for making shadow puppets is fantastic. I'm not sure how you could sell them.....................as for prices yours seem reasonable but again I'm no expert there either. I like the story book idea Shawn suggested. Perhaps you could have a storyline with each shadow along with suggested music etc. I would not know where to start with a shadow puppet if you gave it to me. Don't give up though I enjoy your work and the videos.

Shawn, I agree that there is a market issue - however, I also believe they are two different market audiences. Muppet types tend to be bought by young adults, by those who are interested in a certain kind of puppet. Shadow puppet patterns tend only to be bought by teachers.

Having said that, you are spot on about the issue of individual patterns. I notice in my web stats (and this I knew before posting here) that many people will look at my list of free patterns, become unsatisfied and then click to see the patterns available in my shop. This doesn't happen with the muppet-types at all (usually they see the freebies, then click away). Providing a complete book of patterns is ideal, and so bloody obvious I can't believe I didn't think of it before.  

I agree that the outline is the hardest part, which is why I stick to providing patterns that are in the Victorian silhouette vein. I have been going on a 'safari' theme for the most part, so there's no reason I can't easily gather up the patterns into different types of pattern booklets.

Another point is that I have a sense that people are more likely to buy shadow puppet PATTERNS than the actual puppets - but that's another issue for another time.

Thanks very much for your input both, it's really helpful

I've been thinking over this discussion a bit more, and I wonder: is it simply better not to sell any patterns at all? I did also think vice versa - not selling puppets, but only the patterns - but to be honest, I'd rather just sell the puppets themselves.

Given that most people seem to be searching, for instance, for a mermaid shadow puppet PATTERN, they tend to click away when they see the puppet for sale but not a pattern of it.

... Sigh... to be honest, I don't know what the best marketing strategy is here. I am at the moment considering collecting all the patterns I've made so far, turning it into a book, and then selling that via School of Puppetry where I'll be selling a variety of patterns on a variety of puppet styles. But then, after that, not offering any more shadow puppet patterns and only offering the actual puppets.

Or is that a really dumb idea?

I voted "Less Than $10," however, I only voted that because there was no option for "Exactly $10."  

I would pay $10 for one of those patterns.  They look absolutely amazing and I can tell how much work you put into them.  

Unfortunately, I think the economy around the world is really having an effect on what people are willing to pay for things.  I thought that selling my own puppets on Ebay or Etsy would be a great idea.  I felt that they were good quality and I was asking fair (if not too low) prices for them.  

To date I've sold five different puppets in the last couple of months, which isn't bad...but the problem is I've sold four of them to the same customer.  

I think pricing in this industry is INCREDIBLY difficult to figure out.  I have one puppet, my Yeti, Jr, that I list on Ebay repeatedly and he ALWAYS has at least four or five people watching him...yet he's never ended up with a single bid.  This happens when I list him at a low starting price like $30, a high starting price like $60, or anywhere in the middle like $45.  

At first I thought I was listing them with the prices too low, and people were automatically dismissing them as low quality because the price was so low.  So I raised the prices to try and make people think right off the bat that they were good quality, and ended up with the same results.  Lots of lookers, lots of watchers, no buyers.  

I'm only rambling on about this because I think it relates to the problem that you're having.  I guess I just don't quite get the industry enough to know where to put my price points at.  

But back on subject, for what it's worth I would gladly pay $10 for the patterns.  I checked your site and saw that they weren't up right now.  I was wondering if you were going to put any of them back up.  I guess the question you might want to ask yourself is this:  How much does it cost to keep the patterns listed separately on your site??  If you're already paying for the site, I would guess it's probably not much to just keep the patterns listed.  If that's the case, I would suggest leaving them available even if they aren't really hot sellers.  You never know when someone might stumble upon them and want one, but not be able to get it.  

I think the market for the patterns just is not there at the moment but you never know when that might change. I think you should do the book with multiple patterns in it and have them for sell individually. I would sell the book as a hard copy and then sell the individual patterns as in digital format.  While I realize that the individual patterns are worth more then this it might be interesting to try them at a very low price point like $.99.  I would think that if you sell them in digital form only at this price you shouldn't loose money on them.

If statistic show that the search is for a pattern but they are ending up on the page that is selling the puppet itself then make sure that you have a clear link to purchase the pattern also on that page.

I voted "Less Than $10," however, I only voted that because there was no option for "Exactly $10." I would pay $10 for one of those patterns.  They look absolutely amazing and I can tell how much work you put into them.  

 Exactly ten?

Unfortunately, I think the economy around the world is really having an effect on what people are willing to pay for things.  I thought that selling my own puppets on Ebay or Etsy would be a great idea.  I felt that they were good quality and I was asking fair (if not too low) prices for them.  

I agree. The economy - at least for me - has seen more of a drop in sales lately. Amazingly enough, I sold more during the GFC than I have been in the last 6 months.

I think pricing in this industry is INCREDIBLY difficult to figure out.  I have one puppet, my Yeti, Jr, that I list on Ebay repeatedly and he ALWAYS has at least four or five people watching him...yet he's never ended up with a single bid.  This happens when I list him at a low starting price like $30, a high starting price like $60, or anywhere in the middle like $45.  

Totally agree. On the one hand, you have to balance what is fair to you and what you spent making the puppet; and on the other hand you have to deal with the competition and the expectations of customers. I suspect my shadow puppets are priced too high in comparison with the cheaper - but more 'toy-like' shadow puppets available from other sellers. If I set my prices any lower, I'll be losing money on each puppet though. The other issue with selling online is that you can't as easily collect info about why a customer isn't buying something - in a brick and mortar store, you have the ability to interact directly.

But back on subject, for what it's worth I would gladly pay $10 for the patterns.  I checked your site and saw that they weren't up right now.  I was wondering if you were going to put any of them back up.

I am currently removing my patterns from Lulu.com as I have been frustrated with their lack of customer service and their hard-to-find download button. 3/5 customers email me because they can't download, and I'm losing money and time having to resolve the issue. Because of discussions here, I think the best option is simply to not sell them online individually until I can rework them into a book of some sort (answered in more detail in my second reply to Shawn below) Additionally my site is in the middle of being redesigned, so I'm slowly working my way through editing and replacing the old content with the new.

I guess the question you might want to ask yourself is this:  How much does it cost to keep the patterns listed separately on your site??  If you're already paying for the site, I would guess it's probably not much to just keep the patterns listed.  If that's the case, I would suggest leaving them available even if they aren't really hot sellers.  You never know when someone might stumble upon them and want one, but not be able to get it.  

There are different issues here: because the files are too large to host and sell on my own site (not wanting to create a shopping cart on my own site, as I've done that before and had problems with it), I have to use a third-party site. Lulu.com does take a percentage of each sale; however, any new host I move to will take a monthly fee. That's going to raise the prices a bit.

Another issue is comparing sales: muppet-type patterns currently sell well, with enough money on average per month to cover my web host costs and a bit leftover. In a good month, I can make three times as much; a bad month I won't sell anything. It's very seasonal.

That's the muppet-type patterns; shadow puppet patterns rarely sell, if at all. I just went in to check my sales stats, and I sell muppet-type patterns vs shadow puppet patterns, 10:1 in dollars. (Ie. For every $10 worth of muppet, I sell $1 worth of shadow puppet)

Cost so far hasn't been a factor: patterns are easy passive income, and Lulu's fees are minimal. However, moving to a new sales venue is looking to be extremely expensive (in comparison), although if I do only a hard print book for shadow puppet patterns, then increased fees might not be too prohibitive.

I think the market for the patterns just is not there at the moment but you never know when that might change. I think you should do the book with multiple patterns in it and have them for sell individually. I would sell the book as a hard copy and then sell the individual patterns as in digital format. 

I had been thinking a hard print book is a better option than downloads. Although most people would prefer downloads, a file with multiple patterns would be huge, whereas a hard print might offer a better quality product. For instance, pages with the patterns could be tear-away, making it easier to use.

While I realize that the individual patterns are worth more then this it might be interesting to try them at a very low price point like $.99.  I would think that if you sell them in digital form only at this price you shouldn't loose money on them.

This is what got me thinking about my pricing being too high. I see on many Etsy pages, patterns that sell for no more than a few dollars, if that. Granted, I suspect the patterns are less detailed than mine, or cover things like knitting and crochet (which are considerably easier to explain in a pattern). However, there are two problems with selling at 99 cents each: Lulu.com takes at least that much in a sale even if you price the book at nothing (ie. taking no profit yourself); and any other hosting site costs at least $5 per month and only if you're selling one or two small ebooks. Hosting a number of ebooks per month on another site - which is what I'm likely to end up doing with the muppet patterns anyway - is going to get really really expensive. Currently, what I sell per month via Lulu would barely cover the costs of finding a different sales venue.

If statistic show that the search is for a pattern but they are ending up on the page that is selling the puppet itself then make sure that you have a clear link to purchase the pattern also on that page.

Er, not sure what you mean here. My question above is simply that more people are interested in patterns than in the actual puppets; therefore, should I stop selling the puppets and only sell the patterns? Or vice versa? Is having both options simply detracting from sales overall?

... I'm sure I'm over analysing all of this, but I'm worried that I'm misunderstanding the target market here.

They look absolutely amazing and I can tell how much work you put into them.

Whoops! Forgot to say... thank you!