This is aimed at the people who are selling their own puppets...

Last week I was contacted by someone looking for a particular puppetry service. They happened to live in my town, and it's not something most people openly advertise they do (recycled toys/puppets) and so I offered to do it for them. I've only been in contact with the person via email, and so far, two occasions where we planned to meet up to swap payment for toy (so I could make it into a puppet) have been cancelled. Although the reasons are fair enough, I am currently without transport and so spent several hours of my time wasted in order to get to and from the first 'meeting'.

Now, I've been burnt enough times that I'm no longer actually actively seeking out commission work. I spent one year of my life (and some money) trying to get information from a local museum in order to do a commission for them, to get to the end of the deadline without so much as a "we've changed our minds, sorry". Over the past four years and numerous approaches, only one commission has been successful, although not at all profitable.

So this is how I've ended up saying no (also, I'm now making sure that if it was commission, it would be something I know I can do well, not just something I think I might be able to do).

In the case of the recent issue, I remarked to my mum how I was most likely going to turn this latest commission down: considering the deadline is mid March, for very little money, and I am sick of being jerked around by other people. My mum got pissed off at me because she thinks it's better to play along and get some money out of it (some money being better than none, she said).

The long way around to: at what point do you say no to a potential/customer? I want to be treated like a professional, particularly as I have other (probably more profitable) projects I need to work on and have limited time and resources.

I'm probably going to give this person another try at scheduling a meeting if it fits in with their deadline for needing the puppet - but is it better to be as genial and forgiving as possible in exchange for the potential dough no matter how long it takes, or should you have a cut off point?

EDITED TO ADD: I am taking a 10% deposit of the payment fee, but it is a small amount and likely to be given in cash when the item is handed over to me.

Unless I know the client real well I always ask 50% down and the balance upon completion of the puppet. I know what you mean Na!

I don't know the person at all. Even if I up the deposit amount, it doesn't make me feel more comfortable. Suffice to say that I'm just sick of getting jerked around and have better things to do with my day. I've been trying desperately to finish that ebook that I mentioned way back in Nov/Dec, but getting quiet concentrating time in my house is like asking for a miracle.

Anyway, I kind of just needed to rant a little because I've struggled to explain to someone that chasing a client just for the sake of the dough isn't necessarily profitable in the sense of time/labour. Apparently getting a few hundred bucks for a few days worth of work = me getting my day mucked about twice, other people's plans getting messed up, and the time/effort it takes to rearrange everything in order to 'meet'.

Commissions just don't work for me, and haven't since 2006. I don't know how you guys do it, because it all falls apart as soon as I even remotely come close to agreeing to do it. Maybe Americans are more willing to put in the effort? Anyway, I'm getting very sick and tired of chasing the almighty dollar right down to nowhere.

Situations like you describe is one reason commission work can be so expensive.  While you look at something and say "Well that puppet would take me X amount of hours to build." You still really need to add quite a few hours for the time taken in dealing with the client. You also have to take into consideration the chance that a majority of them may end up saying no in the end.

I don't blame you at all for your decision. I am much at the same point in my life. Individual custom work is just not for me. I may be willing to take on a full project of some kind but not simply building a puppet for one person. The pay out is just not enough and I often end up feeling a bit used.

Hmm, maybe I should not talk here, not making money with my creativity yet, but maybe this is a point of reason for your mom, Na. My fiancée (in addition to being a very creative person) learned what we here'd call "industrial clerk" so he's quite a bit into book keeping, marketing and things like that.
First: If you just look on getting some money instead of turning jobs down, you might actually loose coin. What is an hour of your work worth? In this case: You could have done something great, Na (I've seen your HP, even though I did have some trouble staying on), but you wasted it on something that never pays. So if hear: "better a little money than none at all", you can answer: "Better no money than a loss!" (not to mention frustration which can be a loss in itself for a creative person)
Secoundly: there are things expected from a professional. One of these things is, that people expect you to work well and get paid well enough to live. So if they can treat you like something you find under the soles of your shoes, they also tend to look down on you. Honestly: Do you thing he'd done the same thing to, let's say, Paul Hogan? No? Why should he be allowed to do that to you? You are entitled to respect and professional treatment, if a customer can't operate like that, he'd better not be a customer.
Or, as I just heard: "nobody has to strip for any coin!"

Situations like you describe is one reason commission work can be so expensive.  While you look at something and say "Well that puppet would take me X amount of hours to build." You still really need to add quite a few hours for the time taken in dealing with the client. You also have to take into consideration the chance that a majority of them may end up saying no in the end.

Yes indeedy. In my case, I had no car, so arranged to meet somewhere central - it also happens to be two buses from my house. (Er, that sounds like a lot, but it's two of anything from my house on PT) I had an errand to run, so left quite a bit early. Part of why I was frustrated is that really, I spent a few hours killing time and then another half hour waiting for the bus to get home again. Do I get that time back, or the money spent on transport? Nope.

I don't blame you at all for your decision. I am much at the same point in my life. Individual custom work is just not for me. I may be willing to take on a full project of some kind but not simply building a puppet for one person. The pay out is just not enough and I often end up feeling a bit used.

I am totally in the same kind of mindset. Funnily enough, I had a firm, concrete policy to turn these things down... and I dunno, forgot it or something. I wish I'd stuck to it.

In the end, I left Monday to cool down and responded to the person via email on Tues. (I haven't heard from them at all since the cancellation on Sun) I suggested some days when I'm free, but reminded them that the deadline would need to be pushed since it wouldn't be til the end of this week til I could meet again. I also politely stated that I have other commitments and that if a suitable deadline couldn't be found - for her or me - that I would have to decline.

I seriously doubt I'll hear back at all.

(On a side note: I often wonder why people agree at all, if their intention is only to back out. I sometimes think that perhaps the price scares them off: they know they need the work done, so agree in haste, whilst all the time likely thinking/feeling that they'll simply back out later)

Good news is that on Saturday I had a group craft day with some people, and ended up finishing a few shadow puppets that I'll be able to sell. I'd much rather spend the $15 on attending that - and whatever costs on materials - and get five hours of work done, than chase someone else around.
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Hmm, maybe I should not talk here, not making money with my creativity yet, but maybe this is a point of reason for your mom, Na. My fiancée (in addition to being a very creative person) learned what we here'd call "industrial clerk" so he's quite a bit into book keeping, marketing and things like that.
First: If you just look on getting some money instead of turning jobs down, you might actually loose coin. What is an hour of your work worth? In this case: You could have done something great, Na (I've seen your HP, even though I did have some trouble staying on), but you wasted it on something that never pays. So if hear: "better a little money than none at all", you can answer: "Better no money than a loss!" (not to mention frustration which can be a loss in itself for a creative person)

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING THIS! When I read it, it was like a penny dropping. I think I was trying to explain to my mum "better no money than a loss of money", but wasn't quite getting the wording right. You are so correct, because that's exactly what happens: if I have so little money, it's better not to spend it chasing after *potential* money and simply save it for other things.

Secoundly: there are things expected from a professional. One of these things is, that people expect you to work well and get paid well enough to live. So if they can treat you like something you find under the soles of your shoes, they also tend to look down on you. Honestly: Do you thing he'd done the same thing to, let's say, Paul Hogan? No? Why should he be allowed to do that to you? You are entitled to respect and professional treatment, if a customer can't operate like that, he'd better not be a customer.
Or, as I just heard: "nobody has to strip for any coin!"

I agree. Many times people call my phone and I'm away from it, but don't leave a message. I've made it a policy not to call these people back: if they were really interested in my services, they'd take 5 seconds to leave a name and number.

Likewise, if people can't be bothered to respond to emails or phone calls of mine (given time and repeated attempts), I give up.

There are other people who are more willing to put in half the effort to get the work done. And they're the ones more likely to actually pay you.

... Lastly... Nobody answered my question!

Seriously, I'm curious: what do you expect from your clients, and what are the things most likely to get you to turn down a job?

You are very welcome for the statment. We had lots of discussions here concerning creative work and bookeeping necessisties, so I was right into it.
For your question: I am really not planning on doing anything on commission. First of all because I'd abhor the risks involved. Then I think it might be hard to stick to your creative flow if somebody else decides the direction of this fickle stream. (I am really impressed with anybody who can do that, thumbs up) and -of course- how could I stick to a deadline when all I know is: I could be ill for weeks. That could happen anytime and having a customer breath down my neck would not help. On the other hand it is true I got my disability pension, so I don't need to get anything done.

Na,
   We don't work on commission, so I can't speak directly to your questions, but here is a very good article on "Working on Commission".  http://www.artbusiness.com/commission.html. 

   We start by asking a lot of questions about their expectations via email, then move on to a phone conversation, never in person.  99% of our clients are out of state or country, so meeting is not possible.  These days with the internet you can email photos, drawings etc...not really necessary to meet face to face.  We leave the face to face time to conferences. 

   Don't hesitate to say no if it doesn't feel right.