As always Na, I'm in awe of your knowledge. Watermarking was something I had never considered until recently and typically of me, hadn't yet looked at. I learned the other day that a colleague's daughter had joined the Lizzie's Lair Facebook page and downloaded photos of my designs to create her own screensaver. Whilst flattered, it got me thinking about how truly unprotected my work is. Facebook has been an awesome platform for spreading the word about my business but it's not in any way secure in terms of privacy, downloads etc. Not that I envision anyone would intentionally misuse my humble designs/images but I guess you never can tell. Thanks for the heads up on how this is done.

This goes to what I was saying above: using the images as a screensaver would be considered by most to be 'personal use' and therefore not infringing on copyright. Whilst technically incorrect (depending on the country's laws and how they're interpreted) you wouldn't really be able to do much about it. It's one of those grey areas that we often discuss whenever replicas come up.

Additionally, watermarking won't prevent people from using your work; it just means that you'll have more ability to point to yourself as the originator and/or get credit when someone uses your work.

The ribs were pretty basic. I constructed them separately and attached them to the underside of the fabric prior to sewing the body - meaning they were easy to sew by hand. They are probably the thing I like most about this puppet - I had such high hopes for him but alas, my vision didn't quite come to fruition.

I think it looks great. I really couldn't tell that you'd handsewn pieces on, I thought it had been carved.

Thanks for your perspective on copyrights. I have looked at images people have submitted by using the same basic puppet design on Project Puppet and kind of assumed it would be okay but thought it best to clarify. To be honest, I think if I followed a pattern once it would be all I need. I'm not someone that particularly likes patterns. As I've said previously, the challenge is half the fun but right now, I think it may be the best way to learn more.

Yeah I was thinking of them too when I posted, but am not 100% of what their policy is. It may also differ depending on whether or not the puppet is for personal use, performance rights (which are separate to character copyrights as far as I know), or selling the puppets for profit. As I said, it depends on each copyright owner and their policy. I think obtaining patterns are worthwhile; it's no different than buying a book. I may not always have my book on hand, but it's ideal for times when I'm trying to work out an idea and am not sure of how to do it, or can't quite get it to work. Quite often I'll discover a bunch of small things I never thought of before that change my build, even if the majority of the text is something I do know about already.

Also, I was thinking about your other post. It's difficult for me to see the thickness of the document holders you were using for your shadow puppet, but I have seen some available in much bigger sizes than A4. A mate of mine is an artist and she has sleeves for each of her works. I have no idea where she sourced them, how costly they might be or whether they would in any way work for you but it might be worth looking in to. Next time I see her I'll grab some details.

Thanks, that would be great!

I have been thinking of trying to source sheets of the same plastic, but haven't gotten around to it yet. But one reason I wanted to use the A4 stuff is that the hope is to go around to op shops or get people to send me their unwanted folders; do some recycling.   Thickness wise it's just the same folders you can get in a newsagents or at Woolworths. Probably around 3mm.

Sorry, I didn't explain the ribs very well. I sculpted them from foam, sprayed the foam with adhesive and then draped the fabric over the top. The hand sewing was between each rib and into the fabric to give them greater prominence and ensure they stayed put. I haven't to date made a foam body that I could attach them to. As all my characters are full bodied, I'm still using principles from my other designs. To date, all my puppets have a foam neck/body pipe thingy with room to put my hand. The areas around the pipe are stuffed to maintain their shape so any additional bits like the ribs are attached solely to the underside of the fabric. It's part of the reason I'd like to use a pattern as I'm pretty confident my way of doing it less than kosher. Not that I will necessarily change long term - my way is working for me for the most part. Plus, I feel sorry for half bodied puppets. I have some innate and totally ridiculous desire to make them all legs...

Sorry, I didn't explain the ribs very well. I sculpted them from foam, sprayed the foam with adhesive and then draped the fabric over the top. The hand sewing was between each rib and into the fabric to give them greater prominence and ensure they stayed put. I haven't to date made a foam body that I could attach them to. As all my characters are full bodied, I'm still using principles from my other designs. To date, all my puppets have a foam neck/body pipe thingy with room to put my hand. The areas around the pipe are stuffed to maintain their shape so any additional bits like the ribs are attached solely to the underside of the fabric. It's part of the reason I'd like to use a pattern as I'm pretty confident my way of doing it less than kosher. Not that I will necessarily change long term - my way is working for me for the most part. Plus, I feel sorry for half bodied puppets. I have some innate and totally ridiculous desire to make them all legs...

Hmm, I think we miscommunicated somewhere - probably me first
I meant 'sculpted' to refer to the ribs being sculpted from the body/foam, as compared to the body being made and then ribs being attached separately. Actually, your description above sounds pretty much like how it's done in The Foam Book.

Your methodology is fine: if it works, and looks good, that's all that matters. We don't frown on methods here   If it works for you, then who cares about doing it someone else's way?

I like the idea of giving them all legs!! Half of my puppets do, and half don't. The best advice I could give for legs is to avoid giving them all heavy shoes.    

Your new puppet looks great!

When you use a pattern to make a puppet you can still sell it and  you hold the copyright on the end result puppet. If there was a pattern maker out there that tried to say otherwise I think maybe they would have a hard time proving it in court.  

Thanks for the info Shawn and for the encouragement. I think this site will lead to my demise... I am so full of puppets right now I'm distracting myself with daydreams of designs at work. Might be a simple case of escapism but just in case, does the novelty ever wear off?! 

Na, I'm a little brain dead at the moment and not entirely up with the terminology so probably totally misunderstood you. Sorry! I dig the sites attitude to methodology - a glorified way of saying "wing it"! 

Na, I'm a little brain dead at the moment and not entirely up with the terminology so probably totally misunderstood you. Sorry! I dig the sites attitude to methodology - a glorified way of saying "wing it"!  

Not at all, there's no specific terminology for this stuff, which is probably why we got mixed concepts. Sometimes I forget that I need to be more precise

I don't think the novelty wears off. I've been doing puppet making for about 8 or 9 years now, and I still feel very much like a beginner. The fun thing about puppetry is that you can create puppets, and then recreate your designs or concepts. (That's what I'm doing with my shadow puppets at the moment - heading in a new direction)

I don't think the novelty wears off. I've been doing puppet making for about 8 or 9 years now, and I still feel very much like a beginner. The fun thing about puppetry is that you can create puppets, and then recreate your designs or concepts. (That's what I'm doing with my shadow puppets at the moment - heading in a new direction)

Okay, with that said, I am truly scared! My job is hard core so I have always spent my weekends escaping to the Lair where I can indulge my creative juices, bum around in my pj's and shut out the world. Making puppets though has really stepped that up a mark. I love the characters of the Lair but actually creating characters that I can interact with is blowing my mind. Despite loving my creatures, I usually despise the process of building their bodies etc but with puppets, the whole process is energising. It's such a cool feeling to be enthusiastic about my ideas again! I don't aspire to be a professional or anything but if I can shift the characters that live in my head into a reality that other people can dig, what's not to love?!

9 years though Na... that's commitment!

Okay, with that said, I am truly scared! My job is hard core so I have always spent my weekends escaping to the Lair where I can indulge my creative juices, bum around in my pj's and shut out the world. Making puppets though has really stepped that up a mark. I love the characters of the Lair but actually creating characters that I can interact with is blowing my mind. Despite loving my creatures, I usually despise the process of building their bodies etc but with puppets, the whole process is energising. It's such a cool feeling to be enthusiastic about my ideas again! I don't aspire to be a professional or anything but if I can shift the characters that live in my head into a reality that other people can dig, what's not to love?!

9 years though Na... that's commitment!

The 9 years, it doesn't seem like much at all. I've been involved in theatre since I was 10, studied it at uni, and intended to become a theatre technician. Along the way I got sidetracked into puppetry It hasn't been a straight path, so I guess it doesn't feel like it's a long time.  (Actually, in writing my reply, I intended to write 6-7 years, which is what I keep telling myself. But actually I started puppetry at uni, which would be 10 years ago this year. I don't know why I keep thinking it's less time)

This kind of prefaces my actual comment which is that I don't think puppetry necessarily has to take over your life. It has mine, only because I'm trying to turn it into a business and generally have not had much other employment in the meantime. But I think if worked well into your normal daily life it makes a nice break from other things. I know myself, I spend a lot of my day doing admin and then by afternoon I'm itching to go do something more active. (Even if puppet building isn't all that 'active' ) A little time spent doing some puppet building often makes my day more enjoyable.

As it happens, I too find that building stuff can often be very frustrating. It's one of the reasons I settled on shadow puppets; I found myself getting frustrated building things that take more time, and when you're annoyed like that you tend to make mistakes. Or at least I do

One thing I love about puppetry is that you can make something that looks pretty good, but then when you start using it, you can surprise yourself by the movements and expressions you can make. I think that's why it's so addictive, because even the finished product is something unexpected.

I think you'll find that if you put as much time as you feel comfortable with aside, you'll not get too bored of puppetry any time soon

(PS. PJs and puppets is one of my fav things - that and sticking in a good DVD to watch while I'm working. Or actually, I prefer silence whilst working, but around here it's not easily obtained, so a DVD is a fine second)

As it happens, I too find that building stuff can often be very frustrating. It's one of the reasons I settled on shadow puppets; I found myself getting frustrated building things that take more time, and when you're annoyed like that you tend to make mistakes. Or at least I do

One thing I love about puppetry is that you can make something that looks pretty good, but then when you start using it, you can surprise yourself by the movements and expressions you can make. I think that's why it's so addictive, because even the finished product is something unexpected.

(PS. PJs and puppets is one of my fav things - that and sticking in a good DVD to watch while I'm working. Or actually, I prefer silence whilst working, but around here it's not easily obtained, so a DVD is a fine second)

I'm pleased to hear other people experience frustration. I've often felt a bit of a fraud with how little I like the actual making of my designs. Stuffing is a massive bore and turning vinyl is better (and more painful) than any workout you can imagine. But it's worth it for that first moment you can sit back and admire your finished work.

I think we may be kindred spirits Na! Since the Lair started taking off, I've had to buy a bookcase to house all the DVDs I've bought! I live alone so unlike you, get incredibly bored of silence. The perfect weekend for me is indulging my creativity, whilst cracking a beer and having a movie marathon. If it's a decent horror, more the better!

Oh and I get the years thing. I keep thinking Uni was only a few years ago. I have no qualms about ageing but I'm kinda shocked I'll hit 30 next year. I can't account for that many years! I think we assess time by the critical things too. I've been telling people I've been in the same job for four years when in fact, it's six. Just stuck on the auto pilot spiel I guess!

I'm pleased to hear other people experience frustration. I've often felt a bit of a fraud with how little I like the actual making of my designs. Stuffing is a massive bore and turning vinyl is better (and more painful) than any workout you can imagine. But it's worth it for that first moment you can sit back and admire your finished work.

I don't mind stuffing things, but get quite frustrated with small and delicate stuff. I think my fingers are too big and uncoordinated for it I think this is why I like shadow puppets so much; it just requires cutting out with scissors and attaching the pieces together. Actually, most of the work is preparation, in the making of the pattern.

I think this was the important turning point for me. I was getting quite frustrated with a lot of the puppets I was making (I'll happily admit I can make a decent muppet-type puppet, but not a wonderful one) and I think in finding one that suited me I am much happier about it. Otherwise I'm sure I would have burned out by now.

Maybe trying different styles and puppets will help you too. If nothing else, you may find a different method, rather than a different type of puppet, that is more to your liking.

I think we may be kindred spirits Na! Since the Lair started taking off, I've had to buy a bookcase to house all the DVDs I've bought! I live alone so unlike you, get incredibly bored of silence. The perfect weekend for me is indulging my creativity, whilst cracking a beer and having a movie marathon. If it's a decent horror, more the better!

Oh, I'd agree about the kindred spirits part! I have recently decided not to buy books for several years, because I have not yet even flipped through the many good books I bought in 2007 and 2008. The DVDs and books have not yet taken over my space, but if I had my way they would.   I love reading but these days don't have the opportunity to really get stuck in. (Frustrating, as there are a couple that I'm dying to read)

Noise doesn't bother me so much, but it's constant hereabouts, which is why I'm getting to like silence even more. I live with my folks still, and between the random schedules, the continuous building going on in my street, the over-use of the TV... it's all a bit too noisy for my liking.

(Oooh, speaking of horrors: I recently watched 'The Red Shoes' on SBS 2. That was quite a good remake, if a little silly at the end)

Oh and I get the years thing. I keep thinking Uni was only a few years ago. I have no qualms about ageing but I'm kinda shocked I'll hit 30 next year. I can't account for that many years! I think we assess time by the critical things too. I've been telling people I've been in the same job for four years when in fact, it's six. Just stuck on the auto pilot spiel I guess!

Well, the similarities keep coming I'll be 30 in Feb. I still think I'm 18, but that's mainly from being unable to move out.   I'll agree with perspective affecting the feeling of time passing. There hasn't been much to punctuate the past 10 years, so it hasn't felt like it's passed much at all for me. I find it strange to think high school was over a decade ago.