Nice ideas there Dr. M! Gets a fella to thinking...

Nice ideas there Dr. M! Gets a fella to thinking...

Thanks. Seriously, if you want to use that idea, go for it. You could swap paper bag puppets for socks, and it would only add a little to your bottom line.

Someday I'll have to make myself a Princess Party Puppet Pants t-shirt.

hee hee.
smackdown- you were right, Dr. M, quite entertaining, really. (and I only read page 2)
it's incredible the variety of artists and styles on here- and so fun, because everyone is open to sharing their opinions and ideas freely.
-Kimberly

Thanks, Dr. Megan, I really feel so much better now. Cured again by the institute of ridiculous science!

Ahh... now there we go.  I fully agree that an artist does not want to undersell their art but I see this as taking a realistic view to life. It can take years for an artist to make enough of a name for themselves to really make a true living.  So what do you do in interim?  Do you go flip burgers or work in an office or do you find a way to pay the bills that keeps you involved in the thing you love and perhaps even aids in marketing your skills?   I think this service is more about getting your name out there and making contacts.  Think of it as offering a sale or coupon on your services... we all do that.  

When I was in full marketing mode of my services to the public (i.e. sold via a store front) I had to come up with a range of products and part of that was low end products. Yes I really wanted to be making marionettes and selling them for $1000.00 or more but I had to be real. I developed products that where puppet related that sold from $5.00 and up.  Now I must be honest with you all the whole store front idea did not really end working because I made some wrong business moves but it kept me in my line of work and advanced my name as a puppeteer/artist. Actually led me to my next phase in life as the master puppeteer for Stonelion Puppet Theatre.

My problem is that I've already tried doing that - thinking of the potential marketing and in the end wasting *so* much money and time on projects that were underbudgeted or simply didn't pan out. And here I'll point out that I for the most part have not worked in low-level 'normal jobs' to keep paying the bills.

Which is why I'm now in the situation I'm in where I actually do need other jobs to pay for the puppetry. The 'low end products' I'm selling are the patterns. But without some serious injection of funds, I can't realistically continue. I may hold steady but growth is impossible.

For some people maybe the microprojects pan out; I already have tried and gotten nowhere. Now I'd like to be paid what I'm worth.

Did I scare the OP away? ... If so, it wasn't my intention.

I also want to add, that I realised something that should have been obvious: Americans and other countries have a different idea of minimum wage. I've just been looking at freelancing jobs and a lot of the US ones are $6/hour which is like, something I might get as an intern or at McDonald's. (Restaurant businesses are practically the only industry where $14/hour is normal) I guess I'm just used to the idea of my own country's minimum wage, even in theatre, which is high compared to other places. Maybe $50 per microproject sounds reasonable to others; to me it doesn't.

I've been very busy these couple of days with emailing new members, debugging and changing some details of the site. The position of the  "How it works" link is changed Shawn. Please check. Thanks for feedback and more changes to follow.

Na, it was absolutely not my intention to offend you with the term "this way of narrow minded thinking" in my last posting. It wasn't referring to you personally though. I used this term to intensify my statement and my opinion about this industry, to provoke a discussion and a new way of thinking. Succeeded or not, I really appreciate the contribution of everyone who posted their thoughts. I also love to visit this forum and follow, in especial this thread , every day because everyone is open to share their opinions and ideas freely. That's why I also understand why Na didn't intend to scare me away, which is actually out of the question in this case

Although I have followed this thread every day and almost every hour, I was not able to reply you folks right away, because I have been very busy with my regular job. Na, you requested me to answer you directly whether I'm an artist or web developer. Frankly I’m neither. I'm a father of a beautiful 15 months old baby boy and almost working more than 10 hours a day at a well known financial corporation. Streetlance.com is just a late night project with the intention to inspire artists to think different and creative when it comes to making money. It is meant to introduce and offer artists a new opportunity and a new distribution channel to market themselves and earn money seriously online with this method. Me and my baby boy both love to watch Muppet and Puppet shows and that's why I decided to add the category "Puppeteering".

Na was also right about the fact that Streetlance is currently in such an infant stage, a beta version, and not popular enough to give Sellers that added value, which will drive enough traffic to their selling pitch and convert it into sales. However I seriously started with the promotion of Streetlance couple of weeks ago and some artists already sold their pitch and delivered their work successfully. In total 7, with the minimum effort from my side. Why? Because they actively promoted their pitches through their own social networks. That's the strength of a platform, like Etsy or other Artist marketplaces. Streetlance is also a place, a community, for artist where they can make money but with a different approach, simply said. As soon Streetlance gets popular it will definitely be the first Artist marketplace in its kind. I say this because while reading this thread and the responses, I haven't got the feeling that people here fully understand the concept of Streetlance. That's why I'm going to explain what Streetlance exactly is and why it differs from other Artist marketplaces. But...to be continued...

sorry guys but I'm really tired now  

Please don't apologize... I am so glad you are following this thread and continuing the conversation.  I think maybe both "sides" are learning something here.

I like that you moved the "How it works" link.  I hate that you had to sacrifice the contest link though.  Is there any way you can get it into the left side column or maybe added as a tab like the Pitch and Needs one?

I was thinking of some other services that maybe could be offered. I know that Julie was looking at getting a laser cutting machine to cut things out. At the time she brought this up I thought "Hey it would be cool if she could make money doing cutting jobs for other puppeteers". Made me think of some other things like if a person had a machine that could embroidery.  Maybe an inexpensive line of kids T's that fit puppets could be found and the logo of the company or other personalized message could be put on the T's for the puppets. Both of these could be piece work so to speak that might fit right into this type of service. You would not be providing the entire puppet but offering something that maybe someone else could not afford because of the cost of machinery.

Another idea would be for someone who is a builder. Maybe they could somehow offer personal instructions on an aspect of building. I person would ask the question and then the builder could set up their computer camera to video tape a reply showing how it is done.  When I still had the time and was doing stuff on BlogTV the cost of a couple webcams was not really that much for me to fork out so start up cost would not be that much. Not to mention many folks already have webcams for their computers. Thinking more along this line it would be great if there was a way to offer a live say 20 or 30 min workshop for someone. I guess maybe you could set up a time on another service like BlogTV or Skype to meet with the person for the workshop.  That is unless something like this could be integrated into Streetlance.

Now one thing I am not sure about is in the TOS it says you can't exchange information with the other person you are doing business with. How do you handle things when a physical item is sold to them.  I had thought that maybe you could not do this on Streetlance but I saw several pitches that seemed to be for physical items like portriates or like the sketches and designs in Fashion and Design. Maybe these are all done electronically but you would still need an email addy to send them to the client.  So how is that handled Jeffery?

Na, it was absolutely not my intention to offend you with the term "this way of narrow minded thinking" in my last posting. It wasn't referring to you personally though.

None taken. I've had this experience before where web developers have come up with some new website without necessarily thinking things through from their target audience's perspective, or understanding how artists work. Without wanting to reveal a particular website's name, one example would be how web developers can think only in terms of profit margins: forgetting that most artists don't have money to pay for subscriptions or ads, and in turn, quality of content and membership goes down because the person running the site doesn't get the mindset, and artists end up turning away from a useful resource. --- Which is why I asked if you were a web developer or not. Artists tend to have a better understanding of what other artists are willing to do, pay, spend, etc.

I used this term to intensify my statement and my opinion about this industry, to provoke a discussion and a new way of thinking.

My impression from this, your previous posts and the rest of your comment below, suggests that you should spend more time talking to the artists you'd like to help. My guess is that more of them are web-savvy than you realise. In fact, myself and a few others here, along with many other theatre people I know, work in IT as a day job. Quite a few of them would agree that online resources are a boon to the arts.

Although I have followed this thread every day and almost every hour, I was not able to reply you folks right away, because I have been very busy with my regular job.

I forget some people have lives

Na, you requested me to answer you directly whether I'm an artist or web developer. Frankly I’m neither. I'm a father of a beautiful 15 months old baby boy and almost working more than 10 hours a day at a well known financial corporation.

Congrats on the babe!

With all due respect, I think perhaps you need to first investigate and research how artists work, how they price their art, what financial problems they face, what solutions you can offer, and as I mentioned repeatedly, how people see freelancing websites. There are a number of blogs and commentaries I found on Elance, Odesk, Taskarmy, to name a few. As you are neither part of the arts, nor a web developer, it's a good idea to immerse yourself in this info, because there's quite a lot of stuff already written by your target audience (freelancers and those looking to hire freelancers). You should also consider whether or not you're interested in attracting pros or people who just want to dip their feet in.

Streetlance.com is just a late night project with the intention to inspire artists to think different and creative when it comes to making money. It is meant to introduce and offer artists a new opportunity and a new distribution channel to market themselves and earn money seriously online with this method.

I would also do some research on what artists are actually doing on the net. I guarantee you there are more artist communities utilising online income streams than you can think of. Maybe you're pushing too hard to introduce new methods of earning money: if they're already aware of places like Etsy, etc. then they don't need to be convinced of the value of networking/microproject opportunities. The only thing they need to be convinced of is the same as any other product: what makes what you're selling better/different than what someone else is selling?

In other words: we already know about Coke. Why should we choose Pepsi?

Na was also right about the fact that Streetlance is currently in such an infant stage, a beta version, and not popular enough to give Sellers that added value, which will drive enough traffic to their selling pitch and convert it into sales.

That's not a bad thing in my book. I've worked on enough start up dot coms to understand the problems of small audiences when you start out. But you can intermediately deal with the issue by allowing those who want to to charge what they feel is necessary. I could provide a few low end patterns for instance, but I wouldn't want to be on the site selling my puppet making skills for less than I do now.

However I seriously started with the promotion of Streetlance couple of weeks ago and some artists already sold their pitch and delivered their work successfully. In total 7, with the minimum effort from my side. Why? Because they actively promoted their pitches through their own social networks. That's the strength of a platform, like Etsy or other Artist marketplaces. Streetlance is also a place, a community, for artist where they can make money but with a different approach, simply said.

Yes, and of course no site or service will work if you don't put in any effort yourself. However, I can go to Etsy and approach an artist for a custom item and they will tell me a quote based on their own pricing, not a maximum the site allows. Etsy also already allows you to create custom listings so people can choose what they want.

Again, some people will be perfectly fine paying a limited amount and getting relatively good quality products (you get what you pay for) and some people will be perfectly fine doing cheap relatively good products because it's a step into professionalism or because it's a bit of a sideline. It entirely depends on who the site will appeal to, and in order to gain a broader appeal, I believe you'd need to change the pricing structure.

As soon Streetlance gets popular it will definitely be the first Artist marketplace in its kind. I say this because while reading this thread and the responses, I haven't got the feeling that people here fully understand the concept of Streetlance.

It's Elance but for non-graphic design/writer/web developer people. Seriously, I have literally just spent a day on Elance. You'll not find a similar bunch of categories than on Streetlance, but it's not exactly an original concept. If you have not spent any time researching on competitive websites, you really should. You're right Etsy or Ebay may not have the same functionality, but I honestly don't see the difference between Elance or Odesk except for the different types of roles available to fill.

There are about 10 of these sites that I know of and that's just the popular ones. One of them happens to be based in my own home town.

The main reason I suggest researching how artists work, etc is also covered here. It would be very easy to suggest that people just don't get the concept... but the first thing I did at one of my start up dot coms was spend several months researching for competitors and getting to know their websites inside and out. What's more is we spent time researching what people said about them, the good and the bad, and got to know the mindset of the people who would be potentially using the site.

The strength of Etsy and other marketplaces is that not that you can find unique items. It's that the community of people on Etsy are artists and tend to recognise that an artist's work is worth paying for. Artists don't like to underpay - even if they don't have the funds to pay what something is worth - because we know how much time and effort goes into making something that *is* worth something. And we also know how much more money we'd make if we'd just chuck it all in and do something else... like financial planning.

If you think my parents didn't try and talk me out of this lifestyle...

Anyway, I totally understand what it is you're trying to achieve and what the site does. I am simply not convinced of the pay scale.

Perhaps in your next post you could actually respond to that instead of telling me I don't get the concept... I'm curious to know whether you have a reason why the limit is $50 and why you wouldn't want to change it. (For starters... I have other questions)