We should have a forum just for the topic of filmmaking using puppets.  Strategies, tools, rigs, editing tips, etc.  Though I guess Behind the Stage covers that, doesn't it?  Or could at least.

We should have a forum just for the topic of filmmaking using puppets.  Strategies, tools, rigs, editing tips, etc.  Though I guess Behind the Stage covers that, doesn't it?  Or could at least.

Yeah I go back and forth on that. I've had more break down of sections in the past but it really did not seem to make a difference.  Now the one advantage could be that with that as a section it might help in the SE's to get listings when someone searches on film making and puppetry or puppets in film or filming puppets or.... wait I think maybe I might have just taken care of it.  Seriously I am more then happy to ad a section if folks want it.

   I do think that we could be discussing things video/film oriented in more depth. Cameras are becoming more common, and I suppose more people will get inspired to do more stuff.
   Yes,  walking across a room and opening a door is not easy stuff with puppets. How do you do a line... 'and they walk through the countryside, discussing things as they go'.....how do I hide the puppeteers? It  might mean low angles...chroma them in? If I do, could I get that stump, or dip in the field grass to cover what would supposedly be their legs, that don't actually exist even if I cut the puppeteer out...the puppet will always be low in the frame ie: touching the bottom of the frame; can they walk behind that log? Can I pan the shot or am I stuck with a static....no high angle shots,  How elaborate do I make the sets? ....etc, etc.
   Poor Fishy, logically, you will need some well earned R and R, before embarking on the next project. But when you are ready....

I think a dedicated forum for filming with puppets would be great. I actually kind of already sort thru all the new posts looking for stuff like that. Whenever I see something from poorfishy or philip, thats where I read first. I have my own project in the works, and will surely be looking for advice from folks who are already doing it. I plan to incorporate some 3D modeled stuff using Blender, so re-learning that has slowed me up, but im about to start writing the first episode, and building the puppets. It already feels a bit overwhelming, doing stuff I have never done before, so a specific place to go for advice and help would be invaluable.

OOOh Gary. You are way ahead of me in the blender field. I last looked at it and spent some time in it when they had just overhauled the interface, and there were NO tutorials on it. Trying to get used to the new look AND learn new stuff at the time I ground to a halt knowing what I wanted to achieve was possible, but is now on the back burner awaiting application, and then I know there will be another learning curve when I finally get around to using it. The last camera tracking program that worked for me was voodoo...has there been much development in that area? Putting 3D into your shots hinges a lot on tracking, if you have a camera movement that is.
    You are feeling overwhelmed doing stuff you have never done before? Welcome to the club!(no joining fee necessary) Sometimes I am freaking out(just to let you know)... I have never done something on the scale we are doing now. Somewhere along the way you just have to take a huge leap....Most of us here are first timers, so even though we might sound all experienced and old hands at it, we are not. However, we have learned something from what we have done so far. I myself love to share what I have learned, as I know how hard it is first time around, and it would be great if I could save someone else some sweat and tears. How well we are doing, we will only know in the final analysis... ie: if we manage to get into theaters, and find out what the public thought of it. THEN we can say we have  done OK.
   keep on keeping on. I look forward to seeing some of your work. ( oh, and by the way , never underestimate the importance of your script.The time you spend on it is very necessary)

Here we go folks!  A brand new section in the Behind the scenes area called Filming Puppets.  Decided to break this bit of the conversation off from the original thread to get things rolling.

First Tip:  No matter how well you plan your shots, plan to replan your shots.  Everything is harder than you thought it would be!

Welll shawn, great!!!. now we might see how many of us movie buffs are hanging  around.

  PoorFishy, second tip : time...

Editing: for just a quick throw together plan on about 1 hour per minute of finished vid (Mind you, after several dozen of the same show, I can get the editing  with music, titles, color balancing, etc, down to half that, as it becomes almost routine). 2 hours per minute if it needs music, titles and stuff. 3 hours per minute if it is well produced, and polished, like for instance a music vid... 10 hours , if it is a movie (I kid you not)....   and then double it, so that you come in on time.

filming:This may be different for others but for us... on a fixed single set, we generally have started a season doing 5 mins in a two hour shoot(we're talking around 40 to 60 shots). It turns out to be 3-4 hours, allowing for late puppeteers, 1hr warm up, script revision, last minute technical stuff etc, and an hour on the end, for lunch and team intergration, planning, etc. After a half dozen episodes, it usually doubles to  2x 5 min episodes, or sections.  That is a fixed set, with only 5 camera positions. It  goes slower also if you are recording audio separate, but if you have a sound op on say a laptop, they will learn to keep up with the shooting to just about the same speed. So with just me  on  everything technical, and  a couple or three puppeteers one morning a week, I can do between 10 and 15 mins a week. I have  pushed it to 21 mins in the week , but  family life and health suffers.
   Every set change we allow half an hour, that is if the set has been  pre-trialed before the shoot, so take a coffe break about then. With other productions, you have to think set by set, and you will loose quite a bit of time getting camera angles, and puppeteer positioning sorted.

sets: thats a curly one TV people have asked me. It depends on the complexity of the set, how many stock pieces you can reuse, and how dressed it has to be.  Just a conversation outside a door or premade rockface might take 5 mins,  making rocks and custom pieces from scratch, may take weeks.
 I hear that  in the Hobbit they can put together a large  human sized set in a night...but they have  computer controlled routers making  polystyrene bits automatically  from 3D models....oh for a few million dollars.

Cool!

Im at work now, and cant type well on the tiny phone, but I will post some links to great tut sites for blender. The new blender actually is far more user friendly.