Just posted this on my blog, but thought it worthy of some discussion here too... Your thoughts?

I’m working on yet another potential commission submission/quote, and it occurs to me that people approach things back to front.

When you produce a normal show, you have a script or you write one, then you grab your actors together and from there work out ‘blocking’ - what person moves, in what way they move, where they move to and when they move - and rehearse said movements.

In puppetry, you get the script or you write one, then you decide on the blocking, then you get your performers, and only then do you rehearse.

Perhaps it’s this back-to-front process that has so many people contact me about commissions as if the puppets were an afterthought.

I think you might be kind of right Na.  Unless it is actually a puppeteer who is contacting you, I feel that in a theater production the puppets are often thought of as props. I know that at least with shows I've worked on the props department are the ones in charge of the puppets. Often props come into the picture right before the production goes into the tech rehearsals and the time frame is often really tight.

Very interesting observation Na! You are right!

I think you might be kind of right Na.  Unless it is actually a puppeteer who is contacting you, I feel that in a theater production the puppets are often thought of as props. I know that at least with shows I've worked on the props department are the ones in charge of the puppets. Often props come into the picture right before the production goes into the tech rehearsals and the time frame is often really tight.

Most of the people who have been contacting me haven't revealed what they do, but I'm guessing from most of the discussions that the majority are people who have gone "I have an idea for a show, now let's put one on" without necessarily having a background in theatre. But that's just a guess based on the fact that a lot of them have gone "oh, I didn't realise it was so complicated".

Many times people seem to have the idea that all they need is the theme or two-sentence storyline for the show, and then get puppets made, and then work out the rest from there. Or alternatively, especially in regards to people who use SOP, they sometimes come at it as if you make the puppets first and then create a show. I know that can work if you're a performer and adept at developing characters after-the-fact as it were, but a lot of the people visiting SOP will be teachers or others who are not necessarily experienced in developing shows from scratch.

I think perhaps a little more education about how puppets are more inanimate characters rather than props would help. Plus a 'how to' on creating a show from scratch maybe...

But anyway, the thought occurred to me that I'm so used to the way theatre works that I'd never noticed the order of how we construct things and that the 'disorder' may add to the confusion in the commission process.

I'm still trying to puzzle this one out.

I suspect though the main problem is more to do with the construction lead time necessary to produce a full cast of characters, rather than the order in which comes first (script/blocking/rehearsal). Personally, I know it takes me a good week just to create a linen mache glove puppet from initial idea to completed puppet (and that does not include the relevant research if it's an historical figure), so I can only guess how long it takes to construct a mouth puppet. And that's working with a scripted play(let)/sketch/skit/whatever.

Maybe a reply pack (outlining the build process and how long it takes) should be attached to any potential commission inquiry. That way folks will have a clearer idea of their lead time. Just a thought.

Regards,
Dorian

I'm still trying to puzzle this one out.

I suspect though the main problem is more to do with the construction lead time necessary to produce a full cast of characters, rather than the order in which comes first (script/blocking/rehearsal). Personally, I know it takes me a good week just to create a linen mache glove puppet from initial idea to completed puppet (and that does not include the relevant research if it's an historical figure), so I can only guess how long it takes to construct a mouth puppet. And that's working with a scripted play(let)/sketch/skit/whatever.

Maybe a reply pack (outlining the build process and how long it takes) should be attached to any potential commission inquiry. That way folks will have a clearer idea of their lead time. Just a thought.

Regards,
Dorian

It's both: most people are underestimating their lead time. And yes, I do give them a rough idea of a timeline but it's hard to do so without knowing what needs to be made. As an example, a shadow puppet that has five jointed parts and 2 rods will take me longer to design a build than a non-jointed silhouette with one rod. In my last commission it took me 10 times longer to make one puppet because the client didn't like my initial design and I had numerous restarts in order to get it right. (Not her fault, a kookaburra is surprisingly difficult to design!) So a timeline can only be provided if I know certain details beforehand and things only go as expected.

As an example one person has asked me to make puppets of various mythological characters. I'm vaguely familiar with the kinds of stories involved, but that doesn't mean I am on the same page as to what the puppet will need to do - the client gets to decide that. When asked for more details, the person said they didn't know what the puppet would need to do as they hadn't even created dialogue or a storyline yet. (I suspect many people are more than likely quote shopping to get an idea of cost rather than outlaying money straight away)

My point is: how can one make a puppet that a client is happy with when the client doesn't really know what they want? It leaves you open to being accused of doing a bad job when they receive something they didn't expect, simply because they didn't know what it was they wanted in the first place.

I like to tell people to worry more about functionality than anything else because what they are paying for is something that *does stuff*. Unless you're a performer - and again, I suspect most who are contacting me aren't - you shouldn't expect to be able to pick up a puppet and just figure it out as you're going along, especially when you may have an idea that the puppet should do X when it can't, or can do Y when it shouldn't.

Another example is that a person who loves the idea of using puppets asks for something to be made, but says "I don't know anything about puppets or how they work". This can be worked around of course, but for a small subgroup it's more like "I don't know what I'm doing and I'm trusting you to figure it out for me". Now collaboration is a different thing entirely to a commission, and that's what these people need. They are approaching it like "make the puppets first, then figure out *what the show will be about*". They may have a seed of an idea but what they need isn't someone to make the puppets, but rather a collaborator to flesh out their concept. - These are the people that my initial thought was aimed at.

There is another thing: a glove puppet or muppet-type is usually not as complicated to build in functionality as a shadow puppet is. Of course they are just as difficult to build, but what I mean by that is that a glove puppet is usually designed to have a body, arms and the ability to move them around using at least one hand.

There is sort of a previously-agreed-upon unspoken set of movements that these puppets will definitely have. Move arms, move head, speak, hold objects. That isn't true of a shadow puppet. The functionality is dependent more on the type of character and the storyline - perfect example, I have a mermaid that has four or five parts. It needs it because if you don't have that, you don't have the fluid movement of the tail. But a bat has one folded piece to it, because you want the flapping movement and not fluid fish-like movement. So shadows absolutely need more input beforehand as to what it will need to do. Again, you can improvise the movement, but I think that is better suited to those who are comfortable doing so and the people I've talked to are mostly light on details as well as being puppet novices.

...My experience only...

Ah! Gotcha; now I'm on the same page.

My point is: how can one make a puppet that a client is happy with when the client doesn't really know what they want? It leaves you open to being accused of doing a bad job when they receive something they didn't expect, simply because they didn't know what it was they wanted in the first place.

And there in lies along with some of the other things you said, why a commission piece should and most often is more to purchase then an already designed puppet. When giving a quote (which we've discussed before) you have to keep in mind the time it is going to take working with the client to come up with just what they need and want.  

In some ways a custom build is a collaboration. The customer is not only paying for materials and time to build the puppet but they are paying for the creative process and the time that takes. So how to get that communicated to the customer at the start is the hard part I think.  Quite frankly when I give quotes if the customer if vague on what they want then I come back with a quote that to most would seem outrages... Yes I am talking thousands. That is because I have to assume that this job could take weeks if not months of my time before completion. I can't put off other paying jobs unless I know my bills are going to be paid. Almost wonder if something like this would help. "The more details and information you can give about your project and needs the less it might cost your. If you ask for the moon it cost more then if you ask for a 1/2" replica in papermache' of the moon."

Yes, something I probably didn't clarify before is that something being commissioned is not the same as buying a pre-designed 'generic'. With the generic you know upfront what the puppet is, what it does, what it looks like. In the case of a commission, you don't and you're making it specifically to someone's own design. It makes it hard when there is no design to base a commission on.

And yes I agree that a commission is always a collaboration. I think what's missing is that if the client doesn't have even some basic ideas, or a sense of comfort/confidence, then the collaboration becomes unequal: that the client ends up having to be led by the nose, rather than equally sharing in the discussion and direction of the puppet design.

To be clear: what I mean is that there is a difference between coming in at the start and fleshing out the details as say, a co-director or co-writer, or even a co-producer; than to come in as say a designer and being expected to provide one part of the 'props' after all the artistic vision and writing has been done. One is about brainstorming and developing the project, the other is taking that brainstorming and putting it into practice. Of course the line blurs, but in this case 'collaboration' is clearly where you have the same stake in the artistic vision as the client where 'commission' is where you are less involved in decision-making for that artistic vision.

Almost wonder if something like this would help. "The more details and information you can give about your project and needs the less it might cost your. If you ask for the moon it cost more then if you ask for a 1/2" replica in papermache' of the moon."

I should mention at this point I didn't post originally to ask for ideas of how to deal with it. I was just posting an odd realisation that was perhaps obvious to others but I didn't think of until a week ago.

But yes, I do explain pretty clearly that without certain questions asked, I can not make a quote, because all of those things change the price of the quote. I usually include the reasons why (ie. the more parts, the more materials, etc) and try to use a simple analogy as to why less detail is not good (ie. a builder can't build you a house without knowing how many rooms, one storey, or two, etc; and all those choices add up to a different quote).

This probably doesn't belong on the same thread, but I really don't want to add a new thread every time I want to link to some small idea.

Anywho, I had some thoughts today about preparation and planning when it comes to puppet design:
http://www.puppetsinmelbourne.com.au/blog.php/2013/05/24/it-s-good-to-break