Re: More marketing discussion Posted by Na on Nov 12, 2013
Unfortunately, you've caught me in a bad mood, so here we go...
Thank you *so* much Jungle Joe, for popping in with yet another spam post linking to your blog. Normally I don't mind, because heck, I've done it enough myself (although I've attempted to at least be more conversational about it, participate in other discussions so people knew I wasn't being spammy but trying to offer genuine assistance, or prefaced it with 'blatant advertising' warnings).
Let's see the ways in which you've attempted to divert attention away from my specific questions and situation and *towards* your spam, shall we?
Your intro implies that that I have a puppet show. I do not.
Your intro implies that friends, family and so on are not already aware of my business. They are. They also are not at all interested in my services and know no one who would find use for them. As far as I'm concerned, I'm the career black sheep of the family, not that they see it as bad, just that they see it as "that thing this person does" that has no personal value outside of vague interest that people tend to show towards artists ("oh, you do art? How nice. Watercolours?" ... and $10 to anyone who can guess the reference).
Your intro implies that word of mouth is useful. It would be if I was at all anything other than an introvert, with limited mobility, and a respect for strangers that tells me spamming people in museums is probably not a good idea. Or that I'm not pissed off at my last encounter with a museum, who 'engaged' my services right up until they were expected to pay a deposit.
PS. Did you read my other comments about not bothering with business cards? I guess not, because you're not really participating in the conversation, are you?
1. No banners or posters. I'm not a performer.
2. **** me, you really aren't aware of the past discussion are you, or what I've been doing, else you wouldn't be giving me this redundant advice. (By the way your website does not validate)
3. Yeah, see #2. (PS. Your images on your website do not include vital information in its alt text. They're also terribly obvious photoshops. You need some pro ones done)
4. I have many social networking accounts, and though they do provide more hits to the website, they have limited results in converting hits to sales. You can have the highest google rank in the world, and the most followers, and it doesn't amount to *** if nobody puts their money where their mouth is. Why do people think all you have to do is put up a few social networks and the money will start rolling in? Does it ever occur to you that your own business and strategies might just be a *tad* more complex than that? Does it occur to you that you get work because you *can* put the time and effort into marketing, producing, etc? (Has it occurred to anyone but me that I'm not making sales anymore because I can't physically or financially invest in the time to produce more products? No, I guess not. And yet, social networks will solve the crisis because it's just that simple folks. If you'd bothered to participate and READ before copypasta-ing then you'd see there are other factors at work, like the fact that I'm NOT a performer and sell shadow puppets, one of the least wanted types of puppetry around. But no, Facebook will take care of that
)
5. No I don't think I will. See #2.
6. Oh seriously, see #2.
7. I am listed on several 'local directories', whatever that means, which has resulted in all but 0 phone calls and emails. The fact is my website is far higher in the google rank than these so-called directories. (By the way, why link to the local directories? That's a useless waste of space because all it does is encourage your visitors to go price shopping straight from your own site)
8. Review based for what? And I don't want my visitors and customers going to a *different* website and giving the *different* website more google fodder, instead of posting reviews and testimonials on *my website*. Any basic CMS can allow for comments, which you can turn into a testimonials page.
9. Ah yes, the all mysterious, nebulous, "just try something else" advice. Well, that was constructive. The one area that I actually asked for help on, and all you can come up with is "try something different". Yep, great useful advice, very specific and so enlightening.
10. See #2. (Does this actually count as CAN SPAM violations? Or do you actually ask for sign-ups before sending out emails? I don't mind sending out an occasional one if the person hasn't signed up - not including relevant contacts to solve problems, ensure they received their product, etc - but only if I include a disclaimer that it's the only email, they're not on a list, they won't be contacted again if they do/n't reply)
Do me a favour, stop regurgitating the same crap that's posted on EVERY. SINGLE. MARKETING. BLOG. (and stuff I learned years ago working for dot coms) and come up with something original.
If you want to contribute, please join the conversation but not at the expense of the actual topic. Please don't use this thread, or a similar one that I've started, to derail the thread and spam links to your website. I'm having an extremely tough time right now financially and I really find it offensive that you're spamming this thread (and don't think I haven't noticed your previous spam posts either, that outweigh the conversational ones) to boost your own website hits whilst providing nothing to the actual conversation, which by the way, is a topic extremely important to my current situation and is very much the difference between being able to buy food and not being able to buy food. If you were trying to post honest advice and join the conversation I wouldn't care, but your spammy ways make me feel like you're taking advantage of my crisis for the sake of your google rank. Please have some respect and either converse properly or go away (from this topic at least).
Shawn, if you feel this post is too heavy-handed, feel free to whack me over the head and remove it. (The post, not my head) And Joe, I'd be surprised if you ever saw this because you seem to be a bit of a hit-and-run poster.
Thank you *so* much Jungle Joe, for popping in with yet another spam post linking to your blog. Normally I don't mind, because heck, I've done it enough myself (although I've attempted to at least be more conversational about it, participate in other discussions so people knew I wasn't being spammy but trying to offer genuine assistance, or prefaced it with 'blatant advertising' warnings).
Let's see the ways in which you've attempted to divert attention away from my specific questions and situation and *towards* your spam, shall we?
Your intro implies that that I have a puppet show. I do not.
Your intro implies that friends, family and so on are not already aware of my business. They are. They also are not at all interested in my services and know no one who would find use for them. As far as I'm concerned, I'm the career black sheep of the family, not that they see it as bad, just that they see it as "that thing this person does" that has no personal value outside of vague interest that people tend to show towards artists ("oh, you do art? How nice. Watercolours?" ... and $10 to anyone who can guess the reference).
Your intro implies that word of mouth is useful. It would be if I was at all anything other than an introvert, with limited mobility, and a respect for strangers that tells me spamming people in museums is probably not a good idea. Or that I'm not pissed off at my last encounter with a museum, who 'engaged' my services right up until they were expected to pay a deposit.
PS. Did you read my other comments about not bothering with business cards? I guess not, because you're not really participating in the conversation, are you?
1. No banners or posters. I'm not a performer.
2. **** me, you really aren't aware of the past discussion are you, or what I've been doing, else you wouldn't be giving me this redundant advice. (By the way your website does not validate)
3. Yeah, see #2. (PS. Your images on your website do not include vital information in its alt text. They're also terribly obvious photoshops. You need some pro ones done)
4. I have many social networking accounts, and though they do provide more hits to the website, they have limited results in converting hits to sales. You can have the highest google rank in the world, and the most followers, and it doesn't amount to *** if nobody puts their money where their mouth is. Why do people think all you have to do is put up a few social networks and the money will start rolling in? Does it ever occur to you that your own business and strategies might just be a *tad* more complex than that? Does it occur to you that you get work because you *can* put the time and effort into marketing, producing, etc? (Has it occurred to anyone but me that I'm not making sales anymore because I can't physically or financially invest in the time to produce more products? No, I guess not. And yet, social networks will solve the crisis because it's just that simple folks. If you'd bothered to participate and READ before copypasta-ing then you'd see there are other factors at work, like the fact that I'm NOT a performer and sell shadow puppets, one of the least wanted types of puppetry around. But no, Facebook will take care of that
)5. No I don't think I will. See #2.
6. Oh seriously, see #2.
7. I am listed on several 'local directories', whatever that means, which has resulted in all but 0 phone calls and emails. The fact is my website is far higher in the google rank than these so-called directories. (By the way, why link to the local directories? That's a useless waste of space because all it does is encourage your visitors to go price shopping straight from your own site)
8. Review based for what? And I don't want my visitors and customers going to a *different* website and giving the *different* website more google fodder, instead of posting reviews and testimonials on *my website*. Any basic CMS can allow for comments, which you can turn into a testimonials page.
9. Ah yes, the all mysterious, nebulous, "just try something else" advice. Well, that was constructive. The one area that I actually asked for help on, and all you can come up with is "try something different". Yep, great useful advice, very specific and so enlightening.
10. See #2. (Does this actually count as CAN SPAM violations? Or do you actually ask for sign-ups before sending out emails? I don't mind sending out an occasional one if the person hasn't signed up - not including relevant contacts to solve problems, ensure they received their product, etc - but only if I include a disclaimer that it's the only email, they're not on a list, they won't be contacted again if they do/n't reply)
Do me a favour, stop regurgitating the same crap that's posted on EVERY. SINGLE. MARKETING. BLOG. (and stuff I learned years ago working for dot coms) and come up with something original.
If you want to contribute, please join the conversation but not at the expense of the actual topic. Please don't use this thread, or a similar one that I've started, to derail the thread and spam links to your website. I'm having an extremely tough time right now financially and I really find it offensive that you're spamming this thread (and don't think I haven't noticed your previous spam posts either, that outweigh the conversational ones) to boost your own website hits whilst providing nothing to the actual conversation, which by the way, is a topic extremely important to my current situation and is very much the difference between being able to buy food and not being able to buy food. If you were trying to post honest advice and join the conversation I wouldn't care, but your spammy ways make me feel like you're taking advantage of my crisis for the sake of your google rank. Please have some respect and either converse properly or go away (from this topic at least).
Shawn, if you feel this post is too heavy-handed, feel free to whack me over the head and remove it. (The post, not my head) And Joe, I'd be surprised if you ever saw this because you seem to be a bit of a hit-and-run poster.
Re: More marketing discussion Posted by Shawn on Nov 13, 2013
Well I think I am going to leave your post Na. You know me I believe in free speech. 
I do feel it was a bit harsh and inflammatory at times.
Junglejoe does use marketing methods that both you an I do not agree with. I feel like you they are right on the edge of being spam. I fully support people linking to their own site here at Puppets and Stuff and often suggest it to new users. I do feel though that it is much more productive both for our own community and for the person who is posting if they are actually engaged in the topics. For example I think that perhaps many people have found Out of the Box Puppets by visiting our site here yet Julie very seldom actually post about her own site. She participates in other threads helping people and I feel this builds a confidence in her and the company that then when people are looking for supplies they head on over to her site to buy them. It has also won her site a spot on the Home page here, not because she ask for it but because I believe in her company and her.
All that being said, junglejoe's method of marketing can work. We are unique here but most forums and social sites are not as close knit and monitored by humans. There are literally thousands of sites out there that have little or no real human interaction or monitoring. Posting in them with links to your site can up your rankings.
I do feel it was a bit harsh and inflammatory at times. Junglejoe does use marketing methods that both you an I do not agree with. I feel like you they are right on the edge of being spam. I fully support people linking to their own site here at Puppets and Stuff and often suggest it to new users. I do feel though that it is much more productive both for our own community and for the person who is posting if they are actually engaged in the topics. For example I think that perhaps many people have found Out of the Box Puppets by visiting our site here yet Julie very seldom actually post about her own site. She participates in other threads helping people and I feel this builds a confidence in her and the company that then when people are looking for supplies they head on over to her site to buy them. It has also won her site a spot on the Home page here, not because she ask for it but because I believe in her company and her.
All that being said, junglejoe's method of marketing can work. We are unique here but most forums and social sites are not as close knit and monitored by humans. There are literally thousands of sites out there that have little or no real human interaction or monitoring. Posting in them with links to your site can up your rankings.
Re: More marketing discussion Posted by Na on Nov 14, 2013
Posted by: Shawn Sorrell on Nov 13, 2013
Well I think I am going to leave your post Na. You know me I believe in free speech.
Thanks. I'm not convinced (yet) it should be here, as I sort of went off the deep end after a bad couple of weeks and no sleep in 24 hours. I agree with you it's quite harsh. Right response, wrong venue though; this place has always been very welcoming and supportive and the tone seems more harsh simply because it's out of place with the general atmosphere you've created. Also the fact that my own 'personality' here has always trended towards genial, whereas I can often be quite acerbic when I have to.
All that being said, junglejoe's method of marketing can work. We are unique here but most forums and social sites are not as close knit and monitored by humans. There are literally thousands of sites out there that have little or no real human interaction or monitoring. Posting in them with links to your site can up your rankings.
Yes, and you and I are going to have to disagree on this. Some quick poking around at Jungle Joe's background turns up some rather black hat marketing. I think if you saw what I found, you'd be more than likely to say that his approach is not one that 'works', but rather one that 'irks'. You and I both know that there's a world of difference between innocently leaving a comment or two in the hopes of attracting google hits, and outright spam and complete black hat techniques, including deception. Google penalises these techniques, so "working" I suppose depends on how you interpret that word.
His antics here seem somewhat reasonable up until you see the easily-discoverable stuff he's been doing elsewhere. I don't think Julie nor I would or do use such spamdexing.
Sigh... anyway, thanks for humouring me. I may decide to delete it later... I still kind of feel like I just threw up all over the forums
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