Wow! Thank you so much Shawn for taking the time to respond in such detail. You're just the ultimate font of knowledge! I'm going to invest the time in researching based on your feedback.

I've realised a couple of things though. I am a very clumsy builder. Given your information and another thread detailing people's preferred construction methods, I've realised I just go too hard and should step back and take the time to be more thorough. I never machine sew a puppet I've draped (unless it's fur) as I find it too time consuming. I tend to pin, cut and hand sew in place. Really I shouldn't complain too much about my seams given I'm seemingly working the dodgy way. I do love your lemonade idea though so will certainly try the dimple! The next puppet I build I shall slow the process and try and refine it all a little more. I get a bit ADHD when I'm building!

I need to drill down and research some of the tools you've mentioned utilising for sculpting. Also the piano wire. I'm sure I'll have more questions at some point relating to these!

In terms of the smaller puppets, I have made a project puppet before. I made one after my first couple of puppets to see how others did it. It's tiny! I understand the concept I just don't seem to be able to design one that small. I usually build puppet heads first and these then determine the puppets eventual size. I wonder if my inability to master foam contributes. Tiny details are hard for me to achieve, in part because they're too fine and in part because the foam I'm using is reasonably inflexible.

Thank you again for an awesome explanation. Most appreciated

I've realised a couple of things though. I am a very clumsy builder. Given your information and another thread detailing people's preferred construction methods, I've realised I just go too hard and should step back and take the time to be more thorough.

Have you considered trying out other puppet types? Back in the days (hehe) when I was just starting to build stuff I tried a bit of everything. The more I tried, the more I learned about what techniques I prefer and what things I'm good at. You probably will end up right back at the start with mouth puppets, but you may have a better appreciation for other techniques that you can use that suit your personal quirks. There are ways to improve without necessarily following the methods that require more time or energy that other people use.

I say this also because I am very much the same as you. I can build a nice muppet-type puppet, but I found that the more I did it the more I felt frustrated by how long it took to make, or how fiddly some of the building gets, or how butter-fingers working with foam made me feel. At the time I didn't really think much of it. Sue from Sydney Puppet Theatre asked me when I first met her what my specialty was and I went all blank-faced. It never occurred to me that one should or would specialise. Looking back, I realise what she meant because the more you try the more you learn about what things you like and what things you can throw away. -- You'll probably not move to another type of puppets like I did, but trying other stuff really helped me compare different techniques and be able to discern which ones I enjoyed.

Something that you might find relevant: what I'm working on now is a 'regeneration' of shadow puppets. What happened was I went to a designer craft fair in the hopes that I might learn about how to tap into those sorts of sales. I walked out with the realisation that my puppets were crap. The past few years I've really changed what I've been doing - this part is relevant to you.

Have I changed my techniques? Not really. I initially worked with laminated cardboard, mostly because I didn't have any clue as to what other materials to use for durability's sake. What I did was change the materials I used. The basic technique of making the puppets is exactly the same, minus the use of lamination. I even tried to create a newer, more professional rod attachment, but didn't find anything better so stuck with it.

Have I changed my materials? Yes. The materials did help, because suddenly I could go bigger and have more colour.

Have I changed my design? Yes. Ignoring the fact that each design is unique and that I stuck with mostly underwater characters, now I'm making a concerted effort to do designs a certain way. I put more thought into design than I did before - and also before I was designing stuff to see if I could do a particular movement or technique. Now I'm making the character first and worrying about movement later.

... The sum is that my building techniques are 99% the same, the designs are more focused, the materials are 90% different. What makes the puppets look more professional was more about how I approached it mentally; and also the search for a material that did what I wanted instead of the material imposing its limits onto me.

Food for thought.

I know Andrew has been doing some web design changes at the moment. Could be why the site is down.

Andrew via twitter says there's problems with payments for his hosting and he'll sort it out when he gets the chance.

Definite food for thought Na and probably quite timely for me. I've never sought to build to sell on a professional basis. In fact, I don't know why I build. I guess if I look at it, I started puppets as I was bored of cloth dolls and was energised by the challenge. The build often frustrates me with how long it all takes. I suppose really, I just build because I get these bursts of creative energy and if I don't do something with it and focus out the day job and all my stresses, I go a bit loony. So perhaps I shouldn't be aiming for a professional styled puppet if this process is mere creative self indulgence. And if I do want to progress the professionalism of my puppets, find another creative outlet for those moments of insanity.

I have not tried other puppets. Marionettes I can appreciate but the intricacy of them would drive me nuts. Shadow puppets I have an interest in but part of the process that attracts me to a build is choosing colour, character etc and I'm not sure the shadow world would quite cater for that. I might make a concerted effort to meet up with Valita given she's just down the road. Perhaps as you say some insight into other people's processes, materials, skills, tools etc might help me get both some pointers and some realism of my quality.

Definite food for thought Na and probably quite timely for me. I've never sought to build to sell on a professional basis. In fact, I don't know why I build. I guess if I look at it, I started puppets as I was bored of cloth dolls and was energised by the challenge. The build often frustrates me with how long it all takes. I suppose really, I just build because I get these bursts of creative energy and if I don't do something with it and focus out the day job and all my stresses, I go a bit loony.

You sound exactly like me. To begin with I was just making stuff because I was bored and I've always liked trying different crafts. PIM is actually just a blog that I started as a way to archive my thoughts on building stuff. And then it just grew/got out of hand from there.

Actually my grandfather is always the guy I look to to make sense of "the artiste". He was constantly painting oils and he made so many most of the family has at least a few of his paintings - our house is full of them. He used to copy an image from a magazine or a postcard or something. His stuff was good enough that it could easily sell at local craft fairs. And one day we told him that. He says "oh no, I don't want to do that". He'd been retired for quite some time, but you know, we thought he could make a little money or at least put them where they'd be appreciated. But he refused. So we asked why not. He says "I hate painting". He wasn't talking about his actual results, but rather the process itself. So we go "why do you keep painting if you hate doing it?" He says:

"There's something in me. When I paint it goes away. When I stop painting it comes back".

He never defined this 'thing' that he felt, but being a fellow creative I immediately understood what he meant. (I have the same thing with writing, rather than painting or puppetry)

.... Anyway, the point is that a lot of us artsy folk are like that and don't worry if you don't have a 'reason' for doing it. It just is

So perhaps I shouldn't be aiming for a professional styled puppet if this process is mere creative self indulgence. And if I do want to progress the professionalism of my puppets, find another creative outlet for those moments of insanity.

I guess it depends on you. My aim for 'professionalism' was not professional puppetry - it's making my puppets marketable to a general public audience who won't be putting the same pressures on the materials as the pros, or alternatively, won't be interested in the same designs/techniques/movements as the pros. This was a specific, deliberate act on my part to ignore traditional puppetry methods and go straight for something that I could sell to the generic public. I find that when I design for performance it's a completely different matter in that I can make things a bit uglier on the 'back end' as it were. When selling to the public I need to make sure every side of the puppet looks good.

I think that's one of the biggest problems with selling actually. If we were making puppets just for us, just for a show we were doing, then nobody would care that we've made it out of duct tape. Look at Richard Bradshaw: his shadow puppets are cardboard and lighting gel. He does something complicated stuff with rods and rod attachments and jointing, but the basic puppet is $2 cardboard. Can you sell $2 cardboard puppets to someone else? Sure, but only if they're also doing a show and don't care. The general public I've found are more interested in quality materials than the pros, purely because the pros are more interested in getting it to work than it looking pretty.

Just because I have written more about this issue: http://www.puppetsinmelbourne.com.au/blog.php/2011/05/23/i-can-make-that-myself
The problems of selling puppets that people will think they can make at home

I guess it depends on you. I've worked completely differently only because shadow puppets are less in demand than moppets. You will likely be able to get away with a lot more 'unprofessionalism' selling those than you can with a shadow. On the other hand, there's a lot of great puppet makers to compete with (although less so in Aus). If you want to up the ante go for it; otherwise, stick with what makes you happy. I can say that right now I'm getting more and more frustrated with doing less of what I want to do and more of what I don't want to do.

I have not tried other puppets. Marionettes I can appreciate but the intricacy of them would drive me nuts. Shadow puppets I have an interest in but part of the process that attracts me to a build is choosing colour, character etc and I'm not sure the shadow world would quite cater for that. I might make a concerted effort to meet up with Valita given she's just down the road. Perhaps as you say some insight into other people's processes, materials, skills, tools etc might help me get both some pointers and some realism of my quality.

Yeah marionettes drive me bonkers. I tried one and haven't touched another since!
As for shadows: there's plenty of colour to be had, as well as character. You can do three-dimensional puppets if that's what you prefer, or try using different materials like fabric and whatnot.

One thing that might help you is to look at sculpture, or try out papier mache. Although I'm terrible at it, when I've done it I've always come away with a better sense of proportions, exaggeration and things like that. It might be useful for working with foam and figuring out how to get better at scaling down sizes.

I agree though that meeting up with others helps a lot. There are so many times when I've just gone "oooh, that's brilliant!" after chatting to someone.

.. Ok, time to shut my pie hole (text hole?) as I think I'm about to use up the internets here

@Na, Wow!!! I love the quote from your Grandpa!  I have this same feeling and feel as if I'm the only one. Thank you for sharing that!
@Lizzie, everyone, especially Shawn, has given you such good info.  I learned a lot by reading this thread! I love the size of your puppets.  I have used some of project puppet simple series puppets and I think they are too small.  They work great for kids though!  All of the newbies on our puppet team start out using those puppets.  They are lighter, smaller so therefore fit better, and are easier to use in the beginning, then they graduate to "foam" puppets. They don't kill the arms! Haha.
So I think if you wanted to design your own to sell, just use those patterns for measurements to keep them "kidsize". 

Have a blessed day!
 

I enjoyed this thread too, Na take all the internet you need. If rods are hard to come by how about an alternative like a cane, staff or microphone on a stick attached to a hand, then you don't have to worry about the rod showing the prop is supposed to be seen. I like your large puppet he is unique like you.  I was wondering if a little steam on the chin might shrink the fabric or would it melt the foam first?  Might be worth a test on some scraps. 

For kid friendly puppets I saw some hand gloves with different characters of a story on each finger the kids loved those. The teachers are getting reading buddy stuffed animals or puppets that are characters in the books. What is the hot selling kids book right now?

This list is for 2012. What is particularly interesting to note is that Dr. Seuss is still a strong seller (even in the provisional 2013 best seller list).

I'd be worried about copyright infringement. Character merchandise is usually something you'd need permission for.

Would you have to get permissions for older stories like the three pigs or goldilocks?  You could write your own story and be the next big seller.

How about some sample puppets the kids can play with at your booth, maybe a tiny stage for them, you could play with them and bring the puppets to life. Parents can't resist buying something after they see how much fun their child can have with it. Do something you love. 

I had another thought for the chin, if someone else said this and I missed it sorry, how about adding a mole where the pucker is?