Size of Markets Posted by PointHappy on Nov 29, 2013
I'm looking for some gut level responses.  Is the puppetry market growing or shrinking?  Are some segments growing while others are shrinking?

Birthdays 1-3
Birthdays 4-7
Birthdays 8-11
Adult Slam
Libraries
Museums
TV
Theaters
Outdoor Events
Malls
Special Events
Busking
Corporate Event
School Performance
Pre-school performance
Fair/Festival
Anything else
Re: Size of Markets Posted by Na on Nov 29, 2013
Can't really answer, but I have a gut feeling puppet slams are on the rise. There's been a growth of them from what I can tell from twitter.
https://twitter.com/PuppetSlam
Oh, comic conventions might be seeing an uptick. I recall an increase in interest in puppetry because 'nerd' puppeteers have been taking their stuff and selling/busking at cons. The more it goes on, the more popular it seems to be (reported).

Is it worth seeing if there are any stats available from the NEA? Or some other government body that collects data? I know here we have the ABS (Australian Bureau of Statistics) which collects information about industries, growth, etc. I am confident that the ABS would have stats for the arts in general, but I doubt they would have anything specifically about puppetry. On the other hand, our local federal arts grants council might have stats because they'd be looking at sectors of art as part of their work supporting each one.

My best guess is no one collects this sort of data, but I would actually recommend contacting people who run UNIMA centres (www.unima-usa.org) or similar. It's quite possible that those organisations could give a better broad view of the situation, or maybe have contact with people who study these sorts of things. Puptcrit.org might have some researchers on their mailing list as well.
Re: Size of Markets Posted by Shawn on Nov 29, 2013
I am not sure the "market" is growing, but I do think that interest in general is up right now.

For the most part I think that the birthday and school market actually stays pretty steady. If you are willing to hit the price mark for these and do the leg work to get your name out there, then you can make some money at it.

Theater has had a bit of a boost of late simply because there are currently some popular shows out there that use puppets of some kind in them.
Re: Size of Markets Posted by PointHappy on Nov 30, 2013
Na, those are good ideas.  I didn't know if we could get some kind of "wisdom of the crowd" thing going, enough people chiming in and we get a reasonable estimate of the situation.

Shawn, I had read of some of the acts making waves, from Handspring to Glee.  I didn't know how much ripple effect there was.
Re: Size of Markets Posted by Na on Dec 01, 2013
Posted by: PointHappy on Nov 30, 2013
Na, those are good ideas.  I didn't know if we could get some kind of "wisdom of the crowd" thing going, enough people chiming in and we get a reasonable estimate of the situation.


I'm not sure 'wisdom of the crowd' will work. There seems to be a 'renaissance' of puppetry happening at the moment, but my guess is that a) this is partly hype from companies who need publicity, b) local, as this isn't happening here in Australia but is in Europe and the USA; to a lesser part in Asia, c) Europe has a less 'child-centric' view of puppetry and it's always been more popular there. If you want some good things to read, try heading to PuppetVision.info and reading his site.He usually has links to news coverage on puppetry, and he's recently been doing world 'round up' posts which cover some of what I mentioned above. In particular I recall a recent post of his included a news item about a reporter doing a workshop with a puppetry group, and the reporter discussed how misunderstood puppetry is from within journalism.

I'd guess that the big companies, ie. Handspring, are spurring a lot of the interest because the shows are high quality and so it gets people talking more about it. But then, the big companies are also having to have huge financial backing - people aren't likely to go to an off-off-off-Broadway puppet show, but are likely to go to a big high-financed high-quality one. (An example is King Kong here in Aus. It wasn't particularly good, but it's big budget and has a giant puppet in it, so it sold out. Every other puppet show in Aus would have a hard time doing that, with a rare exception or two) Is it a ripple effect of interest in puppetry, or is it just the usual "it's a Broadway show so it must be good" concept?

I'd also take a look at *what* is being promoted. People know about the rod puppetry and costumes from The Lion King; the muppets from Avenue Q; but would they have any idea about half the puppetry done in their own backyard, or the 'non-traditional' non-Western forms? I suspect the 'rise' in interest is not really in puppetry all around, but in certain aspects of puppetry which have currently found favour with audiences. Going back to what I was saying about location: the current trend from my almost non-existent reading of news is that Asia is seeing a renaissance of their own versions of puppetry, which has been dying off for a while now. But they're not reporting upticks in any other kind of puppetry as far as I'm aware.

My gut level response is actually: it's more complicated than that, which is why proper stats would be useful. If you're looking for stats out of curiousity then this complexity might not matter much. However, if you're looking for something to base a marketing plan on - say you're trying to start your own company and want to know what is on the rise in order to tap into it - then I say pick one of the areas above and look into it properly. - Those who want corporate workshops are not going to be the same people wanting kids' shows, for instance. There may be more interest in slams at the moment, but busking may have more long-term appeal. Does interest in animatronics spark up after every school visits Walking with Dinosaurs, only to die out once the show has moved on? Will people actually want to hire a horse like in War Horse for their outdoor festival, or are they more likely to hire a ventriloquist which might be seen as less 'high art'?

Ripple effects would only be relevant I think to certain arenas and certain audiences.

That's why an arts council like the NEA would be good to contact because they're the ones who usually compile stats like that. I actually know here that there were also a couple of organisations devoted specifically to arts marketing, and would often post interesting stats on current trends for a variety of arts industries. I don't know of any for the USA though.
Re: Size of Markets Posted by Na on Dec 03, 2013
Realised I forgot something from the above:

Is the 'rise' in puppetry an actual increase, or simply more access to the information? Puppetry used to be small and unnoticed, but the internet changes that quite a lot. With the increase in ability to communicate, we have more ability to share what we're doing with each other and therefore spread the word easier. Ie. PuppetVision's round-ups. His is one of the most widely read blogs on puppetry, so having a regular news post about events gets the word out about stuff that might only stay local or within a nation's borders. This creates a snowball effect where people think there's more puppetry available, when in fact it might be there's no increase at all, but only increase in *awareness and reporting* of puppetry.

... Like I said, it's too complicated for a gut reaction.
Re: Size of Markets Posted by pagestep007 on Dec 03, 2013
Na...you really have given all this a lot of thought.It is very noticeable. I hope you crack the nut on your present stressful situation. As for my gut feeling, well, the  more I think about it, the less I know. I'll have  to ponder it  some  more.
Re: Size of Markets Posted by PointHappy on Dec 04, 2013
Na, you are right.  I'm doing due diligence on starting a puppetry business. I appreciate your thoughts. 

I've only found one similar person around, a magician who makes some use of puppets. I suspect that there may be some church-based troops. I did research and found no statistics, which was not surprising. The puppeteers I've seen at local events were from out of the area.  One local toy store had a puppet theater in the basement, but it closed at the beginning of this year.  So I'm seeing mixed signs.
Re: Size of Markets Posted by Na on Dec 04, 2013
Posted by: pagestep007 on Dec 03, 2013
Na...you really have given all this a lot of thought.It is very noticeable. I hope you crack the nut on your present stressful situation. As for my gut feeling, well, the  more I think about it, the less I know. I'll have  to ponder it  some  more.

Nah, not much thought at all. More like ramblings at 1am...
Actually some of this stuff I'd use to write about in the old days of doing arts journalism.  The rest is learning a bit about data collection and the problems of confounding variables; basic high school science classes usually teach some rudimentary stuff on methodology. (And thanks for the kind thoughts)

Posted by: PointHappy on Dec 04, 2013
Na, you are right.  I'm doing due diligence on starting a puppetry business. I appreciate your thoughts.  

I've only found one similar person around, a magician who makes some use of puppets. I suspect that there may be some church-based troops. I did research and found no statistics, which was not surprising. The puppeteers I've seen at local events were from out of the area.  One local toy store had a puppet theater in the basement, but it closed at the beginning of this year.  So I'm seeing mixed signs.

In which I case I recommend doing the usual 'market competition' stuff.... I forget the official term. Usually it's just looking around for similar businesses in your area, seeing what they do, where they publicise, what weaknesses they have, etc. I haven't done it myself but I'm sure you'll find a lot of resources on how to do this online somewhere.

A puppeteer I know did this at the start of the year and had similar issues: locally puppetry wasn't really represented; magicians or clowns with puppets as a side thing; or had X and Y puppets but no Z puppets. It could just be your area doesn't have a lot of puppetry, or it could be that no one is interested. The best thing to do is not to ask us or look for stats, but to go direct to the people who would be interested. In other words, grab a puppet, go to your local X (mall/park/festival/whatever), and get people to fill out surveys. In fact, you should do that as well as looking at your competition and what they do.

Official stats really would be hard to find.
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