Hey P&Sians,

Kinda getting frustrated with my builds. I've been trying for years through my cloth dolls etc and now puppets to develop that one, truly evil character. I can see them in my head, but I just can't seem to produce one. The fact it keeps defeating me is really erking me. This weekend's work is prime example, the concept is there but it just doesn't translate:



I put it out there and the feedback people have given me is that whilst ever I use "muppet-esque" fabrics and the eyes etc I'm stuck on, I'll never achieve that truly evil character. After some thought and research, I'm thinking the way to do this and expand my skill set is to try latex. I have sooo many questions...

Firstly, to save everyone's time - Is there a step by step guide to creating a puppet from latex? I was thinking of using the latex that's applied as a "skin" to a foam construction but really don't know how doable this is.
Where the heck do you buy it?!
How difficult do you find it to work with?
Is the process time consuming?
Which is the preferred latex to use for a beginner?
How flexible is it once applied and I assume it remains light weight?
Any other general tips? I've had a look at some other threads and admit it all looks a little daunting. Are there any other materials you think I could try to get that meaner edge?

Thanks

Lizzie

Hey.  First of all, I really like this zombie guy.  Very nicely done.

As for latex, I haven't used it in puppetry but I have used it for mask making.

Latex is an interesting medium to work with but it has it's good and bads.

You can buy latex at a costumer - that's where I buy mine.  The sizes they have on hand tend to be smaller but most places can order larger volumes for you.  But it's expensive, so beware.

It also stinks.  It's loaded with ammonia and you know it as soon as you open the jar. 

It's heavy, depending on how thick you apply your layers.  I've used it for masks, as I said, and in thicker portions like horns or heavy brows they can take on a lot of weight.  So that's something to keep in mind when applying - weight distribution.

It's dense.  I tried to make applications for wounds and hoped to create a ruptured suture effect.  A needle and thread will go trough the latex but again, if it's think it's dense, so be cautious.  I snapped more than one needle trying to push through the piece.

If it's thin it's fairly flexible, but the thicker it is the less give it has.

It dries pretty well overnight, sooner if you air dry with a fan.

Again, this is in mask making, not puppetry, so take all of the above with a bit of salt.  More experiences latex puppeteers may have something vastly different to contribute.

Hope that's a little helpful.

Yes you can apply latex to foam but the foam tends to suck it up like a sponge which adds weight to the puppet. The latex that PoorFishy mentions can be painted on much like paint to your foam. An alternative to latex that I've used before is tool dip that you get at hardware stores. You can buy it in spray or a can to paint on with brush. I like the spray on version.

To be honest, I am not sure just the use of latex is going to satisfy your desire for evil. Evil is not in just the materials used but in the design of other elements of the puppet also.  I think that a change to your eyes in the above puppet could give it a much more menacing and evil look. Smaller pupils, heavy brow, slant to eyelids are just some things that can give a character an evil look.  I've seen some pretty evil looking teddy bears that where meant as children's toys simply because for the design of the eyes. 

Do a google image search on the term "how to draw evil faces". Hopefully you get similar results as I do. Some really great illustrations of what I am talking about. Many of the images I saw where actually of things you would normally think of as being cute and cuddly yet the artist have been able to make them evil.

Latex is a great medium to use, but why not try silicone on fabrics and foams, pagestep007 had a really great tutorial on this very subject and honestly, it is a really brilliant method that im sure would help you with what you are trying to achieve. it is not only cheap and easy, it produces (with a little practice) some amazing results that last A LOT longer than latex, trust me, I tried using latex and it is great stuff, but over time it becomes sticky, degrades and falls apart, but the silicone (and im talking about your standard silicone sealer) lasts a whole lot longer and gives a really nice finish to your puppet, smooth, rubberised and very skin like!!
hope this helps, im sure the zombie would appreciate some nice skin!!

By the way, the puppet looks amazing, I really don't know what you are worried about, he is a work of art and id be so pleased if I had made him!

A couple of suggestions... if you have a single, wayward eye, I would try a couple of different "washes" to try to dull them down.  Maybe some elmer's glue and water? Might give it a more "milky" look. The rest of him is deteriorating, but eyes are nice and bright.(Don't do it on the actual puppet until you know what you want) Or maybe a yellow ink to tone down the blue?

Also, try angling your your eyelid covers more toward the center like a "V", OR you could give him eyebrows and do that. Since he's a little cartoony, they might tie in well.

I actually really like him. He reminds me of this song

I don't know what you're on about. That puppet looks pretty damn scary to me.

I don't know if you'd be interested but there's a company that does animatronics/special effects in QLD. They seem to have a regular touring exhibit ("How to make a monster"), plus workshops on occasion. It might be worth finding out if they're near you...
http://www.johncox.net/

Workshops are here:
http://www.johncox.net/about/brochures/
Don't be misled: their pdf brochure is from 2010. Don't know whether they have anything more recent.

I agree with the others.  Wish I could make a puppet that looks like that!  And I can see why people are pointing out the eyes, but they do seem to fit the character. 

So many awesome suggestions - thank you so much.

I admit my development of facial features is pretty poor. I'm really stuck in a rut when it comes to the eyes and I can see that's letting me down. Shall certainly be more experimental in that regard in future - thanks for your honesty.

So from the experiences you're sharing, it seems like latex isn't the product I thought it would be. The strong smell is a big deterrent for me in addition to expense. If it is also subject to breaking down over time then it sounds like a dive. I watched a bunch of "how to" youtube clips last night and really did wonder if it was too good to be true. The tool dip product and the silicone sound really interesting so I will definitely look in to those. Thanks so much for the suggestions. Is pagestep007 a genius or what?! That dude blows my mind.

Na I had no idea we had a resource like that here in Aus. I'm so keen!

And Lola, I've never heard that song but it is sooo awesome! Thanks for the link!

Thanks again guys. Shall keep you updated on my experimentations.

Na I had no idea we had a resource like that here in Aus. I'm so keen!

Yeah, there are a bunch of special effects/puppetry companies hiding about. I don't know why they're not better known, but they're out there.
Here's another QLD crew: http://www.jmbfxstudio.com.au/
I mentioned only the John Cox one because I was familiar with their exhibitions and workshops which seems to be more useful to you.

... Also, I didn't notice the tooltip recommendation before. I'm not sure I would bother. I got a (spray?) can years ago and it stank up the place something awful, was highly toxic, and wasn't all that easy to work with. It was coating for my rods and I can tell you the plastic has basically peeled off. It was really expensive to buy, and I never bothered getting a second because of those faults.