I have no clue how to word my question appropriately so forgive the most likely poor use of terms and possible rambling.

Lately I've been wanting to get back into selling again for various reasons. Externally I have worked out a sort of personalized style that just needs time to grow. Overall I am happy with the final look of my projects. My concern when it comes to selling them is "are my insides clean enough?".

When I first sold stuff a few years ago it was just glorified sock puppets with minor alterations. The insides were clean. It was a sleeve that led to a mouth. You put your hand in, no confusion, easy peasy. With my newer stuff there is a lot more structure work for the head in foam. Sometimes it's more of a slide hand in and "is this where my thumb goes? no wait here it is" kind of moments. Nothing time consuming or aggravating I don't think but the "cleanness" isn't there and to be honest I'm not sure what the best approach to fixing it would be.

As most puppets within actual stores (when you can find them) are all geared for kids they are basically plush toys with kid sized arm holes and tiny inoperable mouths from an adults standpoint. Not something I imagine myself imitating for my projects.

What do you guys do? Am I just being paranoid? I worry a lot when it comes to selling because as a potential independent businessperson I want the product to be quality. It's my name out there after all. I never want to hear back that what they received is not worth the money I charged them.

It's hard when the only physical references are kids toys and don't really relate to what I'm doing. Externally I have learned a lot over the past several months. Maybe I just need to build my mouths a bit better. Or a sleeve like thing on the mouth on the inside of the puppet? Is it OK for a sellable product to feel foam or should it all be covered and hidden away from the customer.

Hopefully my question makes some form of a sense. I'm happy just building but I'm only a few projects away from feeling cramped. Everything I make gets a place in my workspace. I refuse to box anyone. It would be nice to sell off pieces I'm not attached to so that I can continue to grow. I just worry that even though it may look cool, would it feel...sloppy internally to someone unbiased towards the piece.

OK I'm done going in circles haha, hopefully there's enough sense in this mess for someone have input.

Depends on who you sell to. As you say, most puppets are for kids. If you sell to parents or teachers, they are not interested in figuring shit out - they want to plug and play as it were, but also its probably because they dont get how puppets work themselves and dont have the time/interest/whatever to learn. The other thing i have found is that because they dont understand puppets they will assume the 'innards' are unfinished rather than seeing at as skeletal.

Puppeteers on the other hand are more forgiving because they get that quite often we are more interested in functionality and audience-facing appearance than making everything perfect on the inside too.

One reason i decided to start again on what i was selling was the recognition that what general people buy or expect will be different from what puppeteers will use. A puppeteer - richard bradshaw for instance - will happily use a cardboard shadow puppet because it does what is needed, is cheap and you can replace it quickly. But thats not durable and no one wants to buy a $30 cardboard cut out that lasts 5 minutes. (Well some people sell things like that but theyre more cardboard-on-sticks than full blown puppets)

I decided that choice of materials was important but also making sure that the puppets have a 'finished' look to them. Both performers and gen pop should be happy this way.

I think you should go with a compromise - make it as finished on the outside as possible, neaten up the innards (make sure people dont need instructions for where to put their hand) and the rest is about educating people that this is a functional object and not a toy. - in fact one thing i have noticed is that the more confusion a puppeteer has in figuring out how to use a puppet the first time, the more likely there will be functional issues or ergonomic problems. I remember hearing from another puppet maker that a puppet should rest naturally in a neutral position that a performer finds comfortable.

Ps. Foam can gain sweat from use; adding a sleeve might actually be a selling point in terms of hygiene.


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I knew I could count on you Na~ Haha!

You really helped get my head in the right place on this.

Since my goal is to one day do video I have unintentionally been building them geared towards the puppeteer. Majority of my projects have been the foam structure covered, the end. Only a few have the problem of getting your hand right and that is due to me being sloppy when I built the mouth and the way it was covered in the particular projects.

While I don't necessarily want to build "kids" puppets in the sense of what already is on the market, I have to face facts that for the most part those will be my buyers. No matter what my style will look like the word puppet will auto categorize it as a toy for children. If anything I want my puppets to be child friendly of sorts as well as functional to any adult who may simple want it because they like puppets. The designs I have in mind would be larger than norm for a child's hand but would still be useable for the most part. Too many times have I wanted to buy a puppet but couldn't because it was built so small.

Example of my plan being the following as well as a more humanoid variation currently in progress:

The idea being a simple head structure with sleeve "neck". Simple sweet and I can do a lot with the basic build as far as variations go. As I said above though I literally just built this:

and then covered it. The insides is still just the foam structure.

I do agree with your hygiene point in this regard. I think with this design if I can just cover maybe the back of the "skull" to sort of close it off from wandering fingers and a sort of lining for the hand/mouth spot I can make it work with minimal alterations and extra work.

I knew I could count on you Na~ Haha!

And some people call me a knowitall
... Glad i can help

While I don't necessarily want to build "kids" puppets in the sense of what already is on the market, I have to face facts that for the most part those will be my buyers. No matter what my style will look like the word puppet will auto categorize it as a toy for children. If anything I want my puppets to be child friendly of sorts as well as functional to any adult who may simple want it because they like puppets. The designs I have in mind would be larger than norm for a child's hand but would still be useable for the most part. Too many times have I wanted to buy a puppet but couldn't because it was built so small.

You are exactly where i am: having to admit that mostly parents/teachers will be buying and accepting that whatever i make will have to work on a 'kiddy' level too. I am getting around this a bit by: making things that have mature themes so adults enjoy the underlying content but its unobtrusive and therefore kids will enjoy them anyway; diversifying into non-puppet products; avoiding terminology that is laden with preconceived concepts (ie dont call it a puppet!); and generally aiming higher by avoiding marketing to those who look for puppets ... That last one might not make any sense but if you go to puppetsinmelbourne.com.au and read the latest blog post it should be clearer. There is a long post about why i decided to rename my business and what i learned about keywords and customers. It is probably worth a skim - it is long - for some insights into avoiding being cast as 'for kids'.

I like the idea of a simple head and neck. I think so long as you market it right people will get that the inside of the head is not going to be picture perfect.



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I checked out the blog post. Awesome read. I can relate on a lot of points that would take too long and be too complicated to quote and what-not haha.

I had originally started out a few years ago selling the glorified sock puppets because it filled the expected demand of "puppets" and I figured what better way to make money for other things. I stopped making them not only because I hated making them but the fact is I had trapped myself in the expected market. There was no time to work on my "brand" when I had to stay up with making repetitive generics. I can relate to your wide scope of products you want to do as my ultimate brand design allows that sort of range as well. The trick for me has been getting my skill to where it needs to be for the puppet element.

And to note...the further I get into building puppets and the aspect of really selling them...the more I hate Muppets...

There was a whole mess of things I could relate to but your right...it was long haha. So it's a job in and of itself to comment on all of them. Just know that as usual you are very helpful~

I checked out the blog post. Awesome read. I can relate on a lot of points that would take too long and be too complicated to quote and what-not haha.

Yeah i write too much
Seriously though if theres anything that stuck out for you, do post it. If nothing else i would love the feedback

The trick for me has been getting my skill to where it needs to be for the puppet element.

Same. I started off rethinking my materials and building techniques, then moved to rethinking design and theme and am now working on marketing, feedback and refinement. So far i have been talking about it for 4 years - hope that in 2015 i can finally do it. Take your time - its like wine, it will get better with age.

And to note...the further I get into building puppets and the aspect of really selling them...the more I hate Muppets...

Same with me. I find muppet-types too laborious and fiddly and i just cant achieve that 'look' that people want and expect.

Which brings me to the most important part of my reply: why not do some other type of puppet?

. Just know that as usual you are very helpful~

Thank you
Glad to be of service


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Not much to add, just dropping in to say thanks for the post!  Gives me a few things to think about

Since my goal is to one day do video

That is a smart way to tackle it!  I tried doing both and realized that I couldn't commit what little time I had and pretty much nothing got accomplished. 

Which brings me to the most important part of my reply: why not do some other type of puppet?

I had originally planned on not restricting myself during this skill building period. In the end I keep coming back to my current style and methods. Ultimately as much as I detest the labels I will have to endure going the route I am, it serves my end needs the best. I have a design for my own kind of puppet I would like to switch to someday. It is perfect for film and could even be used for stage theater(not that I have the social endurance for that sort of thing). I'm sure like any "original" idea...it's been done before. At the moment I just need to gather the techniques needed and the funding to build a "prototype" of sorts. All in time.

That is a smart way to tackle it!  I tried doing both and realized that I couldn't commit what little time I had and pretty much nothing got accomplished. 

Film is like my dream spot haha~ I have wanted to rush in and have held off. To be honest my main film project has gotten too big that some days I don't think my skill will ever catch up to what it needs. I've been sitting on it for years now writting, designing. I have a complete map drawn on my studio wall at this point filled with cities, landmarks and possible future expansions. Multiple creature races designed. Stacks of stories/potential stories. Racial Biographies... I even wrote down the process of brewing alcohol used by one of the races...you know...just in case.

I've worked on it so long at this point all it needs is to be done. Just have to get my know-how to the right level. And some extra hands wouldn't hurt.

Sounds to me like you folks have got this one figured out.  Just a quick note... with new products there are often prototypes.  I see you kind of figured this out with your dragon puppet.  You built one then went back and thought of things you could do the next time to clean up the inside.  

hehe My prototype system is more an excuse for me to keep them. I make the first "prototype" and "Oh darn...this one won't do. I guess I'll keep it".

But really the idea is to go back and make a better one I just always get distracted by the next project.