Hoping that title adequately sums this up....

As you guys know I'm into shadow puppets. At the moment I am inching my way towards launching a new set of products. In order to make them reasonably priced I had planned on purchasing a cutting machine for the flat pieces. However, I find that I am increasingly uninterested in doing this. To me, there's no point in making things if all I do is create a digital file and press print. I like the tactile experience of making things, as I am sure you will all understand. Problem is, hand-cutting everything to my level of perfectionism is time-consuming and takes my products from the $10-20 range to triple or worse.

Is it crazy of me to want to hand-cut everything? I feel like there is some way to make it quicker, like hand-cutting numerous parts at once by sandwiching them together... But that assumes a simple design with little by way of intricate or small details which are fiddly. There's also more chance of accidental scratches as my plastic is easy to damage that way.

Why not offer one with your expertise of a cut and more detailed product and another that is just printed and option for the customer to cut out the pieces. With the second option you could sell cutting tools that you could hand make. Of course there is always the risk with the second option that someone would copy the design and mass produce it. For that reason make the second option simple designs and the first option more complicated. Either way good luck with your endeavors. If I can be of help let me know! 

Hmm, you know I really should have been clearer. I am not necessarily referring to shadow puppets themselves. I have a couple of other products which are more art display than puppet. The idea is that I will be making an initial run of small items as a way of having something affordable that appeals to people outside of puppetry. In this particular case I was thinking along the lines of shelf/wall silhouettes.

Actually though your idea is somewhat similar to with what I planned to do with the shadow puppets themselves: offer a flat fee rate for building or designing simple puppets, with a commission/quote for more complicated stuff; in addition to a small selection of pre-made items  for sale, predominantly as examples of what I can do, but also for those who just like my characters.

I love the idea of character silhouettes and that could be a wide range of ideas. Can't wait to see what you do with them and am always fascinated with how you reinvent yourself with new ideas.

I think you are going to have to go with the cutter approach if you want to sell anything.  I just don't think the market would bear higher then 10-20 per item unless they are custom one of a kind pieces that you did not duplicate for others.

I agree with Shawn, if your goal is to make a living/support yourself cutting everything by hand is a probably a mistake.

If you are making everything by hand, you are basically selling your time. So if it takes one hour to make something and you sell it for $20 with material costs of $5 you are essentially making $15 per hour. That is an ok wage I suppose, but assuming that you work 40 hours per week and sell everything you make your maximum possible income is $600 per week.

On the other hand, if you use an automated machine to cut and it speeds up the process so you can make the same $20 item in 15 minutes you can potentially make $60 per hour. Now your potential weekly income from a 40 hour week is $2400.

The first scenario is you selling your time, the second is you manufacturing a product. The first scenario is the trap many struggling artists fall in to, where more sales = more work and less time and too much success can actually become a burden. The second is a scalable model for a successful business. I don't know the specifics of time and cost for what you're doing, but I think that this basic principle applies no matter what you're making.

The only way making something by hand would make sense is if you're going to sell it as a high-end artisan item for several times more than what the mass produced item is worth. For example, if you buy mass produced shadow puppets in Asia they are fairly cheap and made for tourists, but the authentic hand made ones are very expensive.

Have you seen my Puppet Pricing Spreadsheet? Try using that to calculate the costs and profits from different scenarios.

I love the idea of character silhouettes and that could be a wide range of ideas. Can't wait to see what you do with them and am always fascinated with how you reinvent yourself with new ideas.

Thanks. Am already working on a poster, mostly because it was for a fundraising campaign reward. I've been hoping to get it done for-ev-er (it's literally a day's worth of work away from being done) but what with being sick and so on it's probably not getting done til the last days of the year. If you're keen on seeing something of the design, the website in my signature is based on it. The design utilises concepts such as the flat plastic, toy theatre, colour scheme, characters, and so on, that I plan on working with in real life.

I think you are going to have to go with the cutter approach if you want to sell anything.  I just don't think the market would bear higher then 10-20 per item unless they are custom one of a kind pieces that you did not duplicate for others.

I agree with Shawn, if your goal is to make a living/support yourself cutting everything by hand is a probably a mistake.

Yes, totally agree.... at least my rational brain says "this is the only way to make it profitable". My creative brain is saying "No, you must build stuff YARRRGGHHHHHH".

Thing is I'm reluctant to do it by cutter because at the end of the day, that's all there is to it. With shadow puppets, or the other things I plan on, it's 'pattern -> cut -> done'. If I just use a machine, then I'm just a digital artist - nothing wrong with that, but it's not me. The whole point is that I HATE sitting at a computer all day, and LIKE making things with my hands. If I'm using a machine, I feel like "oh, what's the point?"

If you are making everything by hand, you are basically selling your time. So if it takes one hour to make something and you sell it for $20 with material costs of $5 you are essentially making $15 per hour. That is an ok wage I suppose, but assuming that you work 40 hours per week and sell everything you make your maximum possible income is $600 per week. On the other hand, if you use an automated machine to cut and it speeds up the process so you can make the same $20 item in 15 minutes you can potentially make $60 per hour. Now your potential weekly income from a 40 hour week is $2400.

Yes, agreed. Part of why I wanted the machine in the first place is that there's no easy way to reduce the wages cost without seriously devaluing my time. - Of course, I haven't yet priced out the cost of machine/parts/repairs but obviously even with the initial outlay it should reduce costs a lot.

I don't know the specifics of time and cost for what you're doing, but I think that this basic principle applies no matter what you're making.

I think it applies no matter what job in what field. Labour is seriously undervalued by people in general, especially when it comes to freelancers.

The only way making something by hand would make sense is if you're going to sell it as a high-end artisan item for several times more than what the mass produced item is worth. For example, if you buy mass produced shadow puppets in Asia they are fairly cheap and made for tourists, but the authentic hand made ones are very expensive.

This is true, but from what I've seen, there's no way to easily do that in Australia. High-end artisan artworks can't garner more than $60 I bet - artworks being soft toys and thereabouts - and again, it's shadow puppets or similar. The biggest issue with such products is that people usually go "oh, cardboard cutout, I can do that at home". High-end artisan may garner higher prices but it's also a far smaller market, so I need to do something which is both more generic and cheaper but still retain some sort of valuable aesthetic. Hope that makes sense...

Have you seen my Puppet Pricing Spreadsheet? Try using that to calculate the costs and profits from different scenarios.

Yes, it's actually my go-to file for everything pricing.

I guess I'm just sitting here wondering if I'm the only one who feels like there's no point in doing it if it's mass-produced. I don't mind reducing the amount of work that needs to be done, but for me there's no challenge left. The designs I'm thinking of are super-simple to think up so there's no complicated mechanism or whatnot to figure out. They're super-simple to make so there's no challenging build other than me trying to make it look as professional as possible. Once designed and made, I lose interest so marketing is sort of that thing that I never bother doing because for me the job is done and I want to move on to the next build.

I know I have to make it as profitable as possible. I just find myself bored with the idea of pressing print vs cutting it out by hand. If I wanted to get paid for digital designs that get printed out then I think it would be far more sensible/lucrative and just as dull to go work for some PR company or something.

Again, you all make perfect sense - I'm just wondering if this feeling is at all just me?

I can understand and I really respect where you're coming from, but there's nothing wrong with having a cheap, easy-to-make product that you can sell. Why not make those and sell them on Etsy or at shows and use the extra time you'll have to create work that makes you feel more fulfilled? I know that freelance/custom work is very up and down, so maybe that could be away to help ride out the down periods financially?

I have a friend who makes soft toys. Her work is incredibly good, heirloom quality really. She stubbornly refuses to mass produce her work because she has a "one of a kind" aesthetic, but she sells a lot of more easily mass produced items in addition to her work like buttons, T-shirts, etc. and those do a lot to help supplement her income.

Ok, I am thinking it is just me for the most part - not that I don't hear you in agreement, but that I am so seriously extremely bored of everything and that comes down to my depression and not the art itself. The fact is that I could get up right now and in a few hours or less complete my poster design. I won't, because I just don't see the point of it. I like my new designs and all but frankly I'm just too damn depressed to care.

Why not make those and sell them on Etsy or at shows and use the extra time you'll have to create work that makes you feel more fulfilled? I know that freelance/custom work is very up and down, so maybe that could be away to help ride out the down periods financially?

That's the logical thing and what I've been telling myself for ages. But the truth is that I really have a hard time with all of it: I've never been 100% on being a solo business person but can see it's my only option left in terms of making money and that's depressing in itself; I'm bored of being home all the time and sick of being the only person to put in the work to get it done; going to markets terrifies me because I'm no salesperson and have no interest in pretending; and lastly, the fact that NOTHING actually makes getting up in the morning worth the effort.

So the short answer to why not is a circular game of "what's the point?" and "so bored". (You have to understand that for me thinking is almost equivalent to doing. By the time I've thought of something and worked out the kinks, it's 'done' and I have a hard time staying interested after that and actually implementing the idea. That's why I can't be assed with the poster anymore)

Sorry for the whinge. I'm having a shite day and frankly I'm really at a point where I think it's far better to just stop pretending like I care about this anymore. It's already 2 years since I decided on this 'new' path and nothing's changed about my situation including my interest levels. I'm just extremely frustrated and tired of hitting emotional and real-world walls.

Blargh, shut up Na.