Thanks for the responses everyone! But that is why I've always liked this community alot.

Marty I will surely go look for it online I just downloaded 250+ magician and illusionist books though wich will keep me busy for ages I think. I realized quickly that magicians are very secretive about their techniques wich makes sense ofcourse. Most tricks explained for free online are the ones I can see through in an instant.

Why I'm interested in mentalism more than magic is because I want to baffle people without the use of (rigged) props, having to learn slight of hand, etc. I want to use cold reading and the power of suggestion and NLP techniques to mess with people's perception of what's going on. Right now I'm reading Pure Effect (out of print and very very expensive if you want to buy it) by Derren Brown and I'm learning alot from him already. Especially about how to grab your audience with something that seems completely new but based on the same old principles. it's all about showmanship.

Here's a good example of Derren Brown using a ventriloquist puppet in his program Trick or Treat:
(WARNING:contains some strong language)


Poor Andy

Right now I'm toying with the idea of creating an act in wich I let people participate in a fairytale. For instance I let a woman eat an apple and then have her fall asleep or put her in a trance Once I figure out how to do that. Then I have 7 cards with emotions representing the 7 dwarfs wich I will do stuff with. But I'm not sure about the details yet. I think creating a show with a recognizable theme around it though will keep an audience very entertained and involved. People also know these stories very well so you can use their expectations to your advantage. Storytelling is a big aspect of mentalism. The more you speak to your subject(s) and the audience the more suggestions you can put into their minds.

I've got a long way to go before I've learned and practiced enough aspects of mentalism though. But I have all day to study and I'm very morivated I said that I would write reviews and I've realized that although it's fine to help people along the way like marty does, other illusionists would not like it if I'd reveal too much. So maybe a secured magician section would be an idea eventually.

PS: Happy Birthday to you Aengus!

After skimming through the site for abit I noticed you puppetpeople have been very busy and alot has changed I have alot of new puppetbuilding info to check up on thanks to you guys/girls. Hopefully it'll help me get over some of the problems I had figuring out stuff before.

Morning:

RE. your prior post, you have some ambitious goals, but they are definitely doable.

Cold reading and NLP are both very powerful when mastered.  They aren't, however, surefire techniques.  While perfecting them it is a good idea to implement them into an effect that is more cut and dried.  A good example is a card technique called the Classic Force which you should be able to find in your downloaded library.  It depends in large part on psychology and reading body language so there is good chance of failure when learning.  Most teachers of magic say that to be sure you end up with some results in the initial stages of learning it that it be incorporated into another effect or that you at least have a back up plan if it doesn't work.  There is nothing worse than having an effect fail in front of an audience.  It kind of feels like you're up there with your pants down and no place to go.  Then, as you gain confidence and competence with the technique it can be left to stand alone, but there is always the chance that it can fail.

Same way with Cold Reading (on which there is a chapter in Corinda).  Jonathan Edwards (Connections) uses this technique almost exclusively.  To get the results seen on his show about 20 hours of footage shot is rejected for every hour of broadcast.  His back up plan is to edit down!

I like your ideas about storytelling.  You can create very solid conviction by incorporating a story into magic.  This avoid the, "And now I'm gonna...." style of process patter that is dull and non-entertaining.  I'm not sure about literally putting an audience volunteer to sleep or into a trance.  If this is practical I would like to know about it.

On your point about having a long way to go, there is some validity.  Don't box yourself into a perfectionist corner however.  Try working up some material and then practice it under live fire.  In particular, the psychological techniques you into to use require an audience for practice.

Finally, the 250+ books you downloaded, wwhat is the source?

Marty 

mornin'

I just read about EAC (Eye Accessing Cues) wich basicly states that you can tell what someone is thinking by checking their eye movements. This is a part of NLP and you're absolutely right that it's not foolproof at all.

left eye looking up = accessing past memory
right eye = imagining future (could be a lie, imagination)
sideways = listening for sounds
down left = internal dialogue
down right = accessing emotions

usually when someone lies they can stare straight at you though. This is all good knowledge to help dicover when someone is lying to you. You can ask them questions repeatedly and watch their responses. But it's never foolproof. I think it's just a handy extra tool but not something to rely on solely.

I can force people to choose the 7 of hearts as a card wich usually works but I wish to make them pick other cards when they want me to try again I can also make people think of a carrot when asked to think of a vegetable. Some things also work in combination. if someone just picked a carrot and you ask them to pick a color they won't pick orange because in their minds they just had that. I can sometimes steer people to choose yellow but it's a tough one since people have favorite colors usually. Also if you ask a group of people to pick a number between 1 and 10 you'll find that most people will choose 7 every time while another large portion will choose 3 so you can pretend to have predicted that upfront and work that into your act as just one part extra for them to wonder about.

But these are all simple standard things and I really do need to learn more. I do like using them as practice tricks when I'm in a one on one conversation with someone because I like to see what kind of factors influence people's decisions. Sometimes when these kinds of subjects come up during conversation I just throw it in there but afterwards I tell them it was a trick without explaining how I did it. And I thank them for letting me test it on them.

Yeah I don't like the editing down idea either then you might aswell work for a movie company and create special effects. A true mentalist/illusionist can also perform on the streets without failing. I must admit failing would seem horrible but sometimes there are ways out of that wich the audience will accept. Like I said if you made them choose the number 7 and the rest of your act fails most people will still be impressed by that. often when I bombard people with tricks they don't care if I didn't get the first one right. They are absolutely impressed by the most simple tricks that did go well. I just never give up until I impress so keep your safest tricks for last. You can also do it like Tommy Cooper did and magically mess up everything.

anyway thanks for the support marty very cool. I'll send you a pm about the books

Wow 2HeadedMonster those videos really spun me out.

Looks like some serious Magic going down there.

All a bit dark for me, my Mentalisim act is a lot lighter. I hope Funny.

Here have a look at it.

http://henryringmaster.com/HRMetalisim.wmv

PS: I would love a pm on the books too.

Regards

Sorry for the late reply. I had my nose buried in books and in Marty's emails

very happy mentalism indeed the picture of the carrot made me spray milk out of my nose. probably a side-effect you hadn't counted on.

I'll send you a pm on the books...right away!