When I started my first website for kids, based on the only puppet I had at the time, I was looking for folks who would put up links to my site. One person declined because the name of my puppet was MacGillicuddy Monster, and his understanding was that monsters implied wickedness. I didn't try to argue with him at all. Everyone has their own viewpoint, and I didn't want to waste time and energy in a fruitless argument.

I pretty much let folks be where they want to be. I figure I have to answer for myself, not anyone else. In the meantime, I play with puppets! 

+1

I've been pretty much in the lower echelons of the social status my whole life (a freak and proud of it!!) so I can attest that some people are just going to dislike things and it's not worth your energy in most cases dissuading them of their ideas.

I realize that we have relly covered this topic quite sufficiently but I have to say a couple more things.
1- It come down to our goals and how they can best be accomplished.
2- We must also realize that puppetry is an artform which has SO many wonderful facets.
3- There will always be controversy, especially with art.

My goal as a performing artist is to provide programs for children which entertain, encourage and educate. I do feel that many children still need to be reminded how to show respect and love to others (some of the touchy-feely stuff I know, but if we could just respect each other a bit more the world would be a better place), but as a former teacher I HAVE to teach in my programs. One librarian told me this summer, "I can't believe how much you taught them in your show!" Now I believe that I was able to teach better using the puppets as the main teachers - goes along with what I said earlier about puppets helping access the part in a child's brain which requires play in order to learn more effectively. So, with My goals such as they are I will use puppetry to accomplish them based on what my experience has shown to be effective. If a parent does not like puppets, they should not take their child to my show. (back to what you said Na, it is usually the parents who have the problem not the child)

I am a ventriloquist - and I hope NOT one of the creepy kind - and it is my duty to present the art of ventriloquism in a positive light. This means I practice, write my programs with specific goals in mind, have others help me with critique etc. so that I am do good for my art not giving it a bad name. Every art form had good and bad artists, and I desire to be as good as I can be so that others will have positive things to say. And the same should be said for the other types of puppetry. When I teach puppetry in schools I teach it from a cultural/artistic point of view (thanks in part to the information NA has on her website)so the students are learning about the world as well as creating art which they can be proud of and perform with. BTW, studies show that students who are involved in the arts are better students!

I know there are always going to be those people who will complain, or say I am not doing what they want. Then they should not have hired me in the first place, or like you said Terry, I will simply say I am not the right person for the job if I discern that they will have a problem with what I do. I do use some magic and that can be as issue for some (which I frankly think is a bit silly too - it is a magic TRICK, an illusion, not really much different from an optical illusion if you think about it. An object lession of sorts.) I nust choose to remember the 99% of those who love what I do and tell me I have  indeed entertained, encouraged and educated them - and dismiss the 1% who complain. However, I do always look at those complaints to see if there is a nugget of truth from which I can learn and become better.

As artists we should always look to improve our artform and share the benefits of it with others - even if some cannot look past our "dolls".( Besides, my foam people are more fun to be with sometimes than  flesh and blood people.)

No matter what our religious viewpoints, cultural experiences, status or race we probably all can agree that our goal as puppeteers, ventriloquists and puppet makers is to enrich the lives of others through our craft. Just as not everyone enjoys the same forms of music, sculpture or paintings and drawings; the same is bound to happen with our chosen art form. If we do what we do to the best of our ability and are continuing to try to improve then we are on the right track.

Now I will go back to my foam friends!!

Kind of a off the subject question, but these parents who feel a child should not believe a puppet can be alive or that it is done by magic, what do they tell the kids about Santa Claus???

Wow - I've been in CO and returned home to find this neat discussion.

Animal31 - they probably don't believe in Santa and their children are told nothing or else that he is fake.

My 2 cents - I have a lot of experience in working with children as well as writing and editing curriculum for children.  Smaller children think most things are real (including dolls and stuffed animals). We often have kids ask "are the puppets real," or one will say "I know that he (the puppet) is not real."  I always say "He is a real puppet."   

We have found adults enjoy puppets as much or more than children (take a puppet show to a nursing home and see how much they enjoy it).

You really cannot change people's minds.  If they think puppetry is kin to sorcery or witchcraft, you won't change that thinking.  We do a lot of church camps and Kids Crusade services.  We have not run into that, thankfully. However, we present the "kids sermon" in drama.  Some people think you should "preach" to kids at camp or church, so they are not real comfortable with what we do.  That's OK.  We let the person in charge (the one who schedules us to come) know up front what we do.  Usually this person has seen us somewhere else or knows someone who has had us at their church or camp, so they have an idea what we do.    We do action songs, games, puppets, drama, illusions, objects lessons, etc.  Sometimes we can tell the people are very conservative and some of the songs just won't work in that location, so we use others.  No big deal.  We always tell the children that we are doing illusions (we have several names we use) and not magic. 
We have declined a few invitations, realizing that what we do is not what the people were looking for, or that it would not be well received.  And yes, occasionally some older folks have expressed dislike.  Usually though if someone isn't sure about what we are going to do, by the end they will tell us "I wasn't to sure about this, but you really reached the children and they responded, and that's what counts."

We did live in Africa for a time, and some things that are OK in the U.S. were not OK there.  We have a lot of missionary friends, and things are accepted in some areas of the world that are not accepted in others due to culture, teaching... and so on. You have to know what is OK and what isn't. 

Don't be discouraged.  Jesus had plenty of folks who did not like what He did!

Blessings!

MsPuppet, I believe that we are to both teach and preach God's Word anywhere we go.  I personally find it difficult to preach with puppets, especially when it comes to salvation.  I believe that it is the Holy Spirit's job to convict hearts.  We are just to point the way and let them choose to be saved or not.  To me, the most effective way to reach children for Christ is to teach what the Bible says and then to preach it.  It seems to work well when a puppet lesson is given first and then a sermon follows it, using what was taught in the puppet play.  When I was in a traveling team, we took up the whole children's church time with the puppets and then the sermon.  Maybe your beliefs are different than mine, but it seemed to work well for us!  My personal belief is that the puppets should not lead a child to Christ.  If a child goes home to his parents and tells them that a puppet lead them to the Lord, some parents would be very upset.  They want a real person to do that job.  You can argue that a real person is holding the puppet, but parents usually want the face to face encounter.

Wow. Great discussion gang! I have nothing to add except to say that Na (and to a lesser extent LJ and MsPuppet) make me feel better about being a bit of a long winded fellow! Seriously though, all of your writing was quite eloquent and well presented. I enjoyed it thoroughly!

Terry - to clarify -We never do the main part of  Children's church (or whatever)with puppets. In fact we tell them puppets cannot be saved because they do not have a heart, only foam inside of them. We never do the invitation in clown either (kids find it distracting to pray with a clown nearby).  Also, when I said "preach" I was referring to preaching as it is presented to adults, not on a kids level at all. The "real puppet" thing is a fun way to answer the know it alls that want to ruin the fun for everyone else.
Hopefully I have made this more clear than it was.Thankfully most of the parents we have met were  so excited to see someone trying to reach children that they were willing to sit back and see what happened.  I know there are those who don't agree, but they have been a very small part of the people we have met.  Because we live in a fast paced world, where children experience change every few seconds (look at a video game and see how fast the scenes change), we use a fairly fast paced, upbeat presentation, which lasts 45 minutes to an hour. 

Please excuse me for any misunderstandings, but it is sometimes hard for anyone to explain things good enough in a couple of paragraphs.  No one can argue with using somethings, like puppets, when they actually do change lives for the better.  The means and methods may be different, but it is the outcome that is most important.  Maybe I am trying to be too careful in what I do with puppets. The bad past experiences I've had in the past, do effect the way I write my plays.

Maybe I am trying to be too careful in what I do with puppets. The bad past experiences I've had in the past, do effect the way I write my plays.

I think we all can relate to that!! Which is another reason why we all need to give each other a bit of grace because we really don't know what has led to the decision that frames the mindset of our writing and performances.

Please forgive the length, my internet has been out for about two days intermittantly so I've not been able to keep pace here...

@LJ, and actually, pretty much everyone else:

Whenever I refer to the type of content being shown to kids, I really am speaking in terms of what I see locally being programmed. Despite the size of our country, we have a far, far smaller audience and if you don't tour you saturate your market very quickly. From what I've seen/read of American shows, it's far more diverse in terms of what kinds of content is available and themes being written for.

I'd also add that I'm not suggesting the fantasy/imagination/touchy-feely stuff be removed from our writing. I certainly think it's important and necessary: but I also think that showing kids how to question and think for themselves is just as important. I really only have an issue in that there needs to be more representation of other concepts. Again, this comes down to most of what I've seen here in Oz. If you're touring educational stuff, it tends to be about feelings, rather than about encouraging enquiring minds. (Maybe I need to get out more, but having just come home from a fairly crappy musical, I'm not feeling so inclined at the moment)

Part of the larger problem of course, and this I mentioned to someone else the other day, is that artists are well, artists. I don't expect a journalist to write about a subject they haven't researched; I don't expect playwrights to either. So unless you want to go and learn biology for instance, there's no reason why a playwright should be expected to write about how some frogs are see-through. (For instance) It's ok to write about what you're comfortable with and I have no problem with that.

This goes to the heart of what you were saying LJ - art is diverse. I just think in terms of kids theatre it tends not to be as diverse as I'd like. Actually, in general theatre isn't as diverse as I'd like; I'm a rare one in that I actually like to be intellectually challenged when I see a show and so many aim for 'just a great night out' and aspire to nothing more. This may be what other people enjoy, and that makes me a tough critic to please.

One librarian told me this summer, "I can't believe how much you taught them in your show!" Now I believe that I was able to teach better using the puppets as the main teachers - goes along with what I said earlier about puppets helping access the part in a child's brain which requires play in order to learn more effectively. So, with My goals such as they are I will use puppetry to accomplish them based on what my experience has shown to be effective.

And here's the crux: a lot of concepts I find incredibly hard to understand without a visual image. Puppetry is an ideal format for me in terms of how I can learn things. For instance, understanding how the phases of the moon works confuses the * out of me, but with a diagram I get it. I think seeing this shown somehow with puppets would be a great teaching tool. I understand that most shows require characters and a plot, but what I mean to say is that the artform lends itself very well to visual explanations and crossing language barriers. It'd be nice to see a little more educational content like that in shows that can somehow be worked in, without coming across as 'boring'. (A great example for me is 'dirtgirlworld', which is an animated show about a girl who likes gardening. I love to watch it, because it's educational without coming across as such and is also good entertainment too)

I am a ventriloquist - and I hope NOT one of the creepy kind

I don't find the performers creepy, just the 'traditional' vent dummies that look ceramic. I don't know why, they just creep me out. Maybe it's the permanent grin?

When I teach puppetry in schools I teach it from a cultural/artistic point of view (thanks in part to the information NA has on her website)so the students are learning about the world as well as creating art which they can be proud of and perform with. BTW, studies show that students who are involved in the arts are better students!

Thank you! Glad to know I help in some small way
But also: there are indeed studies out there that show that arts and music help students. Music is especially good for learning maths, because there's all that counting going on. I think it's also something about moderation, in that if you have too much science/maths you get a little saturated and bored.

I know there are always going to be those people who will complain, or say I am not doing what they want. Then they should not have hired me in the first place, or like you said Terry, I will simply say I am not the right person for the job if I discern that they will have a problem with what I do.

Half the problem I find with people who request puppets from me is that they don't bother checking whether or not they actually do what they need. I just yesterday received an email request for a puppet (no specifics given, just please call me). I have other things to do at the moment, so passed them on to our local puppet guild. This morning I see the email newsletter and the guy basically wanted an Axtell puppet. Something which, not only do I not know how to do, but even if I did, wouldn't because it's not my thing. (Learning to say no is probably the most valuable lesson and one knocked into me by experience. It really is worth it sometimes to back away from an offer instead of accept because you're hoping for money or a line on a CV)

I do think a lot more education needs to be done for the general public about what puppetry is, because most people think that there's no specialisation within the craft itself. If you do puppets (building or performing), then it's all the same thing to them.

No matter what our religious viewpoints, cultural experiences, status or race we probably all can agree that our goal as puppeteers, ventriloquists and puppet makers is to enrich the lives of others through our craft. Just as not everyone enjoys the same forms of music, sculpture or paintings and drawings; the same is bound to happen with our chosen art form. If we do what we do to the best of our ability and are continuing to try to improve then we are on the right track.

+ a bajillion and one! Couldn't agree more.

Kind of a off the subject question, but these parents who feel a child should not believe a puppet can be alive or that it is done by magic, what do they tell the kids about Santa Claus???

That's what I was thinking. Or how about the speakers when you go to order food at a drive through? Or TVs? Radios? Anything really that is mechanical and is a conduit for sound. (Or words of any kind, like ... computers!)

My 2 cents - I have a lot of experience in working with children as well as writing and editing curriculum for children.  Smaller children think most things are real (including dolls and stuffed animals). We often have kids ask "are the puppets real," or one will say "I know that he (the puppet) is not real."  I always say "He is a real puppet."    

We have found adults enjoy puppets as much or more than children (take a puppet show to a nursing home and see how much they enjoy it).

There's a good point: that if the show is really good, usually adults forget that they're watching puppets. This says nothing about the quality of Terry's - or anyone else's - shows, just that if the adult is already biased towards puppetry then they're not going to enjoy the show anyway. The performance I just came back from bored me to death; and so I spent most of my time remembering that I was watching actors and not 'characters', a set and not 'scenery', etc. If I had have enjoyed the show, I would have forgotten I was watching one. If the adults enjoy watching the show, they will soon forget that they are watching puppets - something they generally have issues with.

We have declined a few invitations, realizing that what we do is not what the people were looking for, or that it would not be well received.  And yes, occasionally some older folks have expressed dislike.  Usually though if someone isn't sure about what we are going to do, by the end they will tell us "I wasn't to sure about this, but you really reached the children and they responded, and that's what counts."

Writing a good play about being open-minded and willing to be wrong is kind of the example of 'other content' that isn't as represented as 'be respectful'. In my experience at any rate.

MsPuppet, I believe that we are to both teach and preach God's Word anywhere we go....
If a child goes home to his parents and tells them that a puppet lead them to the Lord, some parents would be very upset.  They want a real person to do that job.  You can argue that a real person is holding the puppet, but parents usually want the face to face encounter.

And that's kind of why I brought up the issue of religion/puppets. Some people really aren't interested in having religious content in a show for their kids. By all means, use it wherever you can, but I'd double-check for any booking which isn't with a religious-related organisation beforehand. Evangelising in a secular environment is a sure-fire way to get some disagreement from the audience/adults, no matter how receptive they are to puppets. I'd also point out that the parents are probably not concerned so much that it's face-to-face discussion about religion, but rather that parents feel it is their right to teach their child about religion (ie. what they believe) and not someone else (even if they believe much the same thing).

As someone who has spent more time in chapels than synagogues (my family being Jewish, my school being Methodist) and having teachers enforce the rules (you must pray/sing hymns), it really does make you feel uncomfortable if you're not the same religion, no matter how understanding the teachers are and no matter how accepting the school actually is of the multi-religion student body. I don't take offense by it, I can just understand how secular organisations/settings would make certain adults uncomfortable with the religious content.

Wow. Great discussion gang! I have nothing to add except to say that Na (and to a lesser extent LJ and MsPuppet) make me feel better about being a bit of a long winded fellow! Seriously though, all of your writing was quite eloquent and well presented. I enjoyed it thoroughly!

Thanks. Also... you've caught me on a topic that I'm very interested in exploring. I'm usually very verbose in my writing and even for me this is a bit much... but if you met me: you'd think I'm very shy and quiet. (In fact I went out last night and got accused of being just that!)

Maybe I am trying to be too careful in what I do with puppets. The bad past experiences I've had in the past, do effect the way I write my plays.

This touches exactly on why I've been thinking about how and what I present. I never really write anything or create anything that is about something - it's just 'art' in the sense that it doesn't have to have a meaning, it just has to be pretty to look at. I've wanted to provide more and yet have been so screwed up in the past at being laughed at for my opinions that I tend to avoid saying anything at all (artwise). I'm hoping to try and avoid doing that from now on and just make stuff I like and am interested in: and if other people don't like it, tough. ... They don't have to buy it or look at it.

Power to the people!